Built A tiny home, but it has solar issues

[The_realTW]

Ok Im back. So here is a brief synopsis of what your looking at.

Sketch A is the "Current Configuration"

Sketch B is the "Proposed Configuration A" which if installed correctly would require some amazing welding, but let me tell you guys, the welder I know is a Picasso with a welding stick. He could do it. It would require a 1X1 cage to be extended close to 3 feet off the back of the roof to accommodate the massive overhang of these panels. Also this configuration would mean permanent reduced clearance on the top rear of the trailer. The configuration would allow me to have 3 X 325 Watts = 975 watts total collected radiance (obviously the total input to the system would be less and not always at optimal position to the sun, see I AM learning!!!!!) but it would be a lot of weight on the back side of the trailer. I am not worried about the roof, my welder built those beams to take 2000 pounds or more, so I just need to imagine the three panels with the overhang. In the rain it would make a good awning

Sketch C is the "Proposed Configuration B" which although is less dangerous structurally, not by much. Also I would only be able to run 2 X 325 Watt = 650 watts total collected radiance, and to build a system like that would take some engineering. Keep in mind the entire tiny home was built with custom engineering, so like my welder always says "if you can dream it, we can weld it".

anyway I do realize that depending on an audit, which has yet to be done, and possibly changing out inverters and batteries, this may not wholly be necessary, I just wanted you guys to see my ideas so far!

Comments welcome!

[chrisski]

With the overhang design, be cautious of winds tearing it off and I’d recommend a way to run at perhaps half power without sliding the overhang out at all.I have had bad luck with winds at the places I’ve been in. The worst time the weather station said 25 gusting to 35, but I think it was more being miles from that station and the RV shaking all night.

I actually like the placement you have now. For additional power, consider a separate SCC with portable panels.

That’s what I have. I just went to roof panels totaling 950 watts and 400 watts of potable panels. The portable panels outperform the roof panels for most of the day, except for a couple hours before and after noon time. Today was the first day I really used the setup with the additional roof panels. I used about 1.4 kWh overnight, and counting daytime usage, made 2.2 kWh, half of that came from the portable panels.

The portable panels have not been maintenance free. From redoing rivets from getting blown around in the wind to redoing Anderson pole connectors to just moving them three times throughout the day.

If you could get the same type panel, depending on the charge controller, you may be able to use the same SCC if placed in parallel.

Tonight, I’m trusting the weather report that says winds are dying down, and have left the panels out overnight. If I’m wrong, they’re secured from tumbling away with a chain, but I hope I will hear the wind=nd and get them inside.

[The_realTW]

My apologies everyone, I was off the coast of mexico diving with the whales, I am going to catch up on the replies now

[The_realTW]

Ill take these one at a time!

With the overhang design, be cautious of winds tearing it off and I’d recommend a way to run at perhaps half power without sliding the overhang out at all.I have had bad luck with winds at the places I’ve been in. The worst time the weather station said 25 gusting to 35, but I think it was more being miles from that station and the RV shaking all night.

I understand and believe me that is a concern for me as well, but my welder builds SOLID steel, if he says they will withstand something , I believe him. It is still something to take into consideration though.

I actually like the placement you have now. For additional power, consider a separate SCC with portable panels.

I love the placement I have, but as many have pointed out, there is just not enough power for the batteries, or space for the panels to increase to handle the batteries. Again all of this will depend on a new audit when I get back to the states. As to the second part, I presume "SCC" means Solar Charge Controller? and if it does are you saying I need two of them in the same setup????

As to the portable panels I actually found some "flexible" panels that supposedly generate 400 watts off of four very lightweight and flexible panels. Ill post the links in another post as to what I am looking at.

That’s what I have. I just went to roof panels totaling 950 watts and 400 watts of potable panels. The portable panels outperform the roof panels for most of the day, except for a couple hours before and after noon time. Today was the first day I really used the setup with the additional roof panels. I used about 1.4 kWh overnight, and counting daytime usage, made 2.2 kWh, half of that came from the portable panels.


The portable panels have not been maintenance free. From redoing rivets from getting blown around in the wind to redoing Anderson pole connectors to just moving them three times throughout the day.

When you refer to "portable" I am guessing your talking about what is commonly referred to as "suitcase solar", everyone I know who knows nothing abut solar says that stuff is junk, but then again my system is not working as is lol, so I do not know I am on the fence as to whether portable panels would work, however that being said, I do know if they were light enough they could be deployed/taken down fairly easily and I could store them as well.

Portable panels generate 2.2 kWh!!!! wow you must be in a small RV lol. DO you have a microwave, a TV? A refrigerator ?

If you could get the same type panel, depending on the charge controller, you may be able to use the same SCC if placed in parallel.

Tonight, I’m trusting the weather report that says winds are dying down, and have left the panels out overnight. If I’m wrong, they’re secured from tumbling away with a chain, but I hope I will hear the wind=nd and get them inside.

Are you living off grid in this RV, or just out Camping, ???

Thanks for all your input btw, I really do like the look of the portable setups, but I am concerned the amps may be to low, again I know next to nothing (but I am learning) about all of this.

[littleharbor]

[QUOTE=am looking at.



When you refer to "portable" I am guessing your talking about what is commonly referred to as "suitcase solar", everyone I know who knows nothing abut solar says that stuff is junk, but then again my system is not working as is lol, so I do not know I am on the fence as to whether portable panels would work, however that being said, I do know if they were light enough they could be deployed/taken down fairly easily and I could store them as well.

Portable panels generate 2.2 kWh!!!! wow you must be in a small RV lol. DO you have a microwave, a TV? A refrigerator ?







You can easily build freestanding panels with conventional panels and some simple aluminum angle iron tilt out legs. Depending on what fits and what you are willing to muscle around you can have a much higher output array than you roof could ever carry. Remember, freestanding panels are aim-able which can give you optimum insolation. Creative ballasting is needed in breezy/windy situations. Gusty winds otoh require a more solid anchorage.

By the way, I'm on the eastern shore of the peninsula, south of San Felipe.

[chrisski]

As to the second part, I presume "SCC" means Solar Charge Controller? and if it does are you saying I need two of them in the same setup????

As to the portable panels I actually found some "flexible" panels that supposedly generate 400 watts off of four very lightweight and flexible panels. Ill post the links in another post as to what I am looking at.



When you refer to "portable" I am guessing your talking about what is commonly referred to as "suitcase solar", everyone I know who knows nothing abut solar says that stuff is junk, but then again my system is not working as is lol, so I do not know I am on the fence as to whether portable panels would work, however that being said, I do know if they were light enough they could be deployed/taken down fairly easily and I could store them as well.

Portable panels generate 2.2 kWh!!!! wow you must be in a small RV lol. DO you have a microwave, a TV? A refrigerator ?


Are you living off grid in this RV, or just out Camping, ???

Thanks for all your input btw, I really do like the look of the portable setups, but I am concerned the amps may be to low, again I know next to nothing (but I am learning) about all of this.

SCC is a solar charge controller. Depending on the design, you can use more than one. I had a three phase build with the 600 watts of roof panels phase 3S2P I, 400 watts portable panels 4P Phase 2, and 350 additional watts of panels 2P as phase 3.

Because all three panels are dissimilar size with different series and parallel setups with volts and amps, I did need 3 different SCCs. Had I went to my roof and cut cardboard out and figure optimum placement before putting panels on the roof, I could have laid it out better so I would not need so many panels.

=====

For the 2.2 Kw of power, that is an average day of total production, and the portable panels produce most of that. I don't run the microwave off the invert: 3 minutes of 155 amps running my microwave equals one hour of normal power usage at around 7 amps. Although I have 4/0 wire for my inverter, IMO running 150+ amps much amps through an RV 12 volt wiring is not wise.

The propane fridge uses so little propane, I can't even measure it how much uses. I do run the fridge on electricity after the batteries enter absorption mode around 10 am to 5 pm. I could probably freeze water bottles and not open the fridge at night and use no propane at all, but I like the little bit of comfort not worrying about opening the fridge to get a beverage.

====

It is a 35' RV. The weather is perfect for RVng now, so that in part is why my energy is so low.

=====

Portable Suitcases: I think these portable panels are awesome. They're 100 watts, and advertise 6 amps production. Four of these have produced 414 watts, and at peak sunhours, I typically see 380 watts production.

I have Lion Energy Suitcases, and although I would not recommend those panels, they are built fairly solid and are20 LBS each. You need to take care and not let them get blown away in the wind, and also since the panel coating is on the outside of the suitcase, you need to store with care. I would like to build a suitcase with foam coating, right now I'm using the boxes, but what I've come up with so far is over $50 per case.

For storage, I stack the four panels in boxes and put them on top of each other, and put the combiner in the back seat of my pickup, and it takes about half from the floor to the ceiling and there's room to sit a passenger.

What I don't like about these panels is they are wired with 14 gauge wire with Anderson Powerpole connectors. It could be the Vietnamese assembly or Chinese knock off connectors, but they do not seat as well as the MC4 connectors. Lion Energy does not warranty these for other than solar power production.

Most people I see with solar have one of these suitcase panels and I can see why they would think its junk. A single 100 watt panel or 200 watt panel probably is not enough to charge 2 golf cart batteries, especially when they forget to set it up until the afternoon. or tilt the panel to high and it blows away.

Portable panels also tend to be overpriced. Wal-Mart has these panels for sale for a little over $200, which is the best value I've found. I've seen these listed for as high as $450.

[The_realTW]

You can easily build freestanding panels with conventional panels and some simple aluminum angle iron tilt out legs. Depending on what fits and what you are willing to muscle around you can have a much higher output array than you roof could ever carry. Remember, freestanding panels are aim-able which can give you optimum insolation. Creative ballasting is needed in breezy/windy situations. Gusty winds otoh require a more solid anchorage.

By the way, I'm on the eastern shore of the peninsula, south of San Felipe.

Keep in mind that my setup will be 100% mobile, so building a bunch of stands for panels would not be optimal for my setup. I know some of you have joined this thread after I explained all that. I am not against building some sort of "pull out" for my setup that was somehow mounted to my trailer (my welder could do that in his sleep) but anything that required storage and setup/teardown continuously would not be optimal.

[The_realTW]

SCC is a solar charge controller. Depending on the design, you can use more than one. I had a three phase build with the 600 watts of roof panels phase 3S2P I, 400 watts portable panels 4P Phase 2, and 350 additional watts of panels 2P as phase 3.

Because all three panels are dissimilar size with different series and parallel setups with volts and amps, I did need 3 different SCCs. Had I went to my roof and cut cardboard out and figure optimum placement before putting panels on the roof, I could have laid it out better so I would not need so many panels.

=====

For the 2.2 Kw of power, that is an average day of total production, and the portable panels produce most of that. I don't run the microwave off the invert: 3 minutes of 155 amps running my microwave equals one hour of normal power usage at around 7 amps. Although I have 4/0 wire for my inverter, IMO running 150+ amps much amps through an RV 12 volt wiring is not wise.

I am not going to lie, I understood half of that. I do however understand I think that the reason for the three phases is because your panels are not all the same rating ? also the need for separate SCC? I also do not have 12 volt normal wiring as it were. All wiring in the Tiny home is 12\2 20 amp Romex, its some pretty thick stuff. Are you saying that a microwave uses 155 amps to run??? My microwave only used 7 amps when I ran it, before my system went kaput that is.

The propane fridge uses so little propane, I can't even measure it how much uses. I do run the fridge on electricity after the batteries enter absorption mode around 10 am to 5 pm. I could probably freeze water bottles and not open the fridge at night and use no propane at all, but I like the little bit of comfort not worrying about opening the fridge to get a beverage.

====

It is a 35' RV. The weather is perfect for RVng now, so that in part is why my energy is so low.

I tried so hard to find the propane fridge, every time I did find one it was either astronomically priced, or the configuration would not work for my build. My fridge uses 1 amp when it is running (or so it claims) so it sips electricity I guess.

=====

Portable Suitcases: I think these portable panels are awesome. They're 100 watts, and advertise 6 amps production. Four of these have produced 414 watts, and at peak sunhours, I typically see 380 watts production.

I have Lion Energy Suitcases, and although I would not recommend those panels, they are built fairly solid and are20 LBS each. You need to take care and not let them get blown away in the wind, and also since the panel coating is on the outside of the suitcase, you need to store with care. I would like to build a suitcase with foam coating, right now I'm using the boxes, but what I've come up with so far is over $50 per case.

For storage, I stack the four panels in boxes and put them on top of each other, and put the combiner in the back seat of my pickup, and it takes about half from the floor to the ceiling and there's room to sit a passenger.

What I don't like about these panels is they are wired with 14 gauge wire with Anderson Powerpole connectors. It could be the Vietnamese assembly or Chinese knock off connectors, but they do not seat as well as the MC4 connectors. Lion Energy does not warranty these for other than solar power production.

Most people I see with solar have one of these suitcase panels and I can see why they would think its junk. A single 100 watt panel or 200 watt panel probably is not enough to charge 2 golf cart batteries, especially when they forget to set it up until the afternoon. or tilt the panel to high and it blows away.

Portable panels also tend to be overpriced. Wal-Mart has these panels for sale for a little over $200, which is the best value I've found. I've seen these listed for as high as $450.

What I am finding out about the portables is if you look closely at the reviews (And I know like everything I have to take it with a grain of salt, you will see some very detailed tests, and most do not seem to live up to their "quoted output"" , again we need to keep in mind to everyone that is helping we still have some very unknown variables, which are

1. will my energy needs mean a replacement of the inverter/scc/panels/batteries, all or just some
2. if I can get new panels, where and how and what type will be used
3. do i simply just need to change out the batteries,


Again all really good things to consider, but I am in sunny Cancun at my beach house, and the tiny home is locked in -15 degree temps in Nebraska under a giant tarp. When I am stateside I will know more. Also I will continue reading the book today. Meanwhile here is just one consideration I had, for a portable setup. My idea would be to use 8 of these (two sets) and somehow run them in conjunction of the panel on the roof already, again not knowing the rating, they may not even match. My thought was if I left the current system up on the roof (obviously taking the panel down that is not "heping") I could have continuous charge throughout the day, and when I setup camp somewhere, I could deploy the portables.

One thought, the reviews are pretty honest and scathing to say the least

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VM6G4V9/?coliid=I3C384ELVYTCXA&colid=2U26744NLLT3Q&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Ok I am going to read some more of the book today.

[The_realTW]

I also updated my profile, should any of you be more interested in the background of this whole thing. Its brief but I will add more later!

[chrisski]

I am not going to lie, I understood half of that. I do however understand I think that the reason for the three phases is because your panels are not all the same rating ? also the need for separate SCC? I also do not have 12 volt normal wiring as it were. All wiring in the Tiny home is 12\2 20 amp Romex, its some pretty thick stuff. Are you saying that a microwave uses 155 amps to run??? My microwave only used 7 amps when I ran it, before my system went kaput that is.



I tried so hard to find the propane fridge, every time I did find one it was either astronomically priced, or the configuration would not work for my build. My fridge uses 1 amp when it is running (or so it claims) so it sips electricity I guess.

=====



What I am finding out about the portables is if you look closely at the reviews (And I know like everything I have to take it with a grain of salt, you will see some very detailed tests, and most do not seem to live up to their "quoted output"" , again we need to keep in mind to everyone that is helping we still have some very unknown variables, which are

1. will my energy needs mean a replacement of the inverter/scc/panels/batteries, all or just some
2. if I can get new panels, where and how and what type will be used
3. do i simply just need to change out the batteries,


Again all really good things to consider, but I am in sunny Cancun at my beach house, and the tiny home is locked in -15 degree temps in Nebraska under a giant tarp. When I am stateside I will know more. Also I will continue reading the book today. Meanwhile here is just one consideration I had, for a portable setup. My idea would be to use 8 of these (two sets) and somehow run them in conjunction of the panel on the roof already, again not knowing the rating, they may not even match. My thought was if I left the current system up on the roof (obviously taking the panel down that is not "heping") I could have continuous charge throughout the day, and when I setup camp somewhere, I could deploy the portables.

One thought, the reviews are pretty honest and scathing to say the least

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VM6G4V9/?coliid=I3C384ELVYTCXA&colid=2U26744NLLT3Q&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Ok I am going to read some more of the book today.

Portable Panels:
============
My Lion Energy Panels are sturdy and put out more than they're rated at high noon and have an energy draw on the system. I don't like the 14 gauge wire or Anderson Powerpole connectors.

With panel outputs, you can measure the area of a panel and divide it by its watts and each different panel should be close. I noticed some panels claiming to put out more power than they are actually do on E-Bay..

I only have two flexible panels, and I don't think these are sturdy enough to be used as a portable panel. I taped those to my roof with Eternabond ROof Tape and 2 sided VHB. Not a difficult install, but that tape isn't cheap either. Building a frame to make those sturdy will up that price by a bit.


Different Charge Controllers:
======================
Anytime you have a different set of panels, you need a different charge controller. Your original helper panel, the installer should have put it on its own charge controller. Different means different voltages or amperages. I have three totally different sets of panels.If you can't mix them, need a different charge controller: https://solarpanelsvenue.com/mixing-solar-panels/

I do not have different phases of power, What I referred to as Phase 1 was actually the first part I built. Then Phase 2 was actualy Part 2 where I bought my portable panels.

Propane Fridges:
=============
They are ungodly expensive.

[littleharbor]

Keep in mind that my setup will be 100% mobile, so building a bunch of stands for panels would not be optimal for my setup. I know some of you have joined this thread after I explained all that. I am not against building some sort of "pull out" for my setup that was somehow mounted to my trailer (my welder could do that in his sleep) but anything that required storage and setup/teardown continuously would not be optimal.

Tilt out legs aren't a "bunch of stands", more like two lightweight pieces of aluminum angle held on with a couple 1/4" stainless nuts and bolts. Sounds like you're overthinking the project. Freestanding panels have served me very well over my 20some years of dry camping.

[The_realTW]

Tilt out legs aren't a "bunch of stands", more like two lightweight pieces of aluminum angle held on with a couple 1/4" stainless nuts and bolts. Sounds like you're overthinking the project. Freestanding panels have served me very well over my 20some years of dry camping.

Well no, I know they can be simple, they could even be made very cheaply, possibly out of wood even, I am just saying a permanent mounting would be optimal.

[The_realTW]

BTW, I read this and this last night, and while I do not understand everything, this guy spoke to me more then my solar "expert" ever did. I learned in one long spiel about why my system never worked.

400AH batteries being charged by a 325watt panel using a 3500 watt inverter......

hmmm yeah no lol

[J.P.M.]

BTW, I read this and this last night, and while I do not understand everything, this guy spoke to me more then my solar "expert" ever did. I learned in one long spiel about why my system never worked.

400AH batteries being charged by a 325watt panel using a 3500 watt inverter......

hmmm yeah no lol

Kudos again seem due Sunking. The legacy stays productive even when he's mostly absent. Others have benefitted much as you have from his efforts.

[chrisski]

I think the “Solar Off Grid Battery Design” is very good. A lot fo questions are skied about how many panels do I need? On another forum, I include a link to that thread.