48V Victron MPPT 100/20 & Panel Question

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Panels: LG310N1C-G4 310w (Currently have 14, will double that is the plan)
CC: 48V Victron MPPT 100/20

Would like some input from the pros


Plan is to run 48v battery bank, 8, 6v (trojan industrial then lithium or whatever is better in 3-5y) batteries (although unsure if that will provide the needed rating, if for instance we're running 25-40a off each inverter) and run 2 panels per-controller in series to get the voltage needed to charge the battery bank.

The inverter side I'm planning on running 2 Victron Quattro 48v\10,000W (to start, adding a 3rd, for 3-phase later).

I was going to run 5000w units as it would more than handle my loads but having the oversized components for around 800$\More - $1600 total seemed like a no-brainer to jump from 5kW to 10kW inverter. These will be running as an appliances\grid0 programmed via victron software, and each Quattro will also be connected to a 2000w Honda EU2000i generator for winter issues with lots of snow.

Tell me what's wrong, thoughts, opinions

[Mike90250]

Panels: LG310N1C-G4 310w (Currently have 14, will double that is the plan)
CC: 48V Victron MPPT 100/20

Would like some input from the pros

Plan is to run 48v battery bank, 8, 6v (trojan industrial then lithium or whatever is better in 3-5y) batteries (although unsure if that will provide the needed rating, if for instance we're running 25-40a off each inverter)

and run 2 panels per-controller in series to get the voltage needed to charge the battery bank.

With the huge loads you are looking at - 2 panels per controller is not going to cut it. Did you mean 2 arrays ?

The inverter side I'm planning on running 2 Victron Quattro 48v\10,000W (to start, adding a 3rd, for 3-phase later).

I was going to run 5000w units as it would more than handle my loads but having the oversized components for around 800$\More - $1600 total seemed like a no-brainer to jump from 5kW to 10kW inverter. These will be running as an appliances\grid0 programmed via victron software, and each Quattro will also be connected to a 2000w Honda EU2000i generator for winter issues with lots of snow.

Tell me what's wrong, thoughts, opinions

Before you commit to oversizing the inverter, compare the idle losses for them, allow for those losses in your power budget

What's the ah rating of the Trojan industrial batteries, can they handle the amps from the charge controller (s) ?

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With the huge loads you are looking at - 2 panels per controller is not going to cut it. Did you mean 2 arrays ?

Can you elaborate on this thought process, I must have missed something here in regard to starting with 7 CC and 14 panels.
Are you saying the 7CC \ 14Panel combination is not enough to start with?
Or, the 2 panels will not operate at voltage required due to inefficiency from shading, direct light, etc... and I should add a 3rd in series to account for loss?

Before you commit to oversizing the inverter, compare the idle losses for them, allow for those losses in your power budget

Thanks. Good call.
55w vs 30w is what it states... although this: https://community.victronenergy.com/...481000014.html makes me a bit worried. That seems like a huge idle load. In your experience will the idle load remain the same if I turn on say 20w of lights, will idle still be ~idle with that small load (IE: NOT +20) or will it go idle + load for sure?
(In my work for instance idle load of a compute system may be 65w but you may be able to do a decent amount of processing without raising that 5-10%, unsure how Inverters compare.)

What's the ah rating of the Trojan industrial batteries, can they handle the amps from the charge controller (s) ?

Batteries I'm looking at are either of these 3. (Open to suggestions like Surrette Rolls for example.)
With the price between the 610 and 920, the 920 is a no brainer, around 300\more\each for the 1225 though so that seems like the AH\$ isn't worth it unless I absolutely needed it.

Trojan SIND 06 610 610Ah, 6V Industrial Battery (IND9-6V)
Trojan SIND 06 1225 1225Ah, 6V Industrial Battery (IND17-6V)
Trojan SIND 06 920 920Ah, 6V Industrial Battery (IND13-6V)

They also make 2v batteries that that seems like a management nightmare, and potential headache chasing down a single bad unit, but I could be wrong here.


We don't use more than 14-20kWh in a 24\hr period so our household\garage loads are not consistently high, and we're not 100% off-grid hence the Victron Quattro which can boost the power for batteries\solar if needed as well as be configured to utilize the batteries until x% then switch to another input such as GRID or Generator in our case, and even re-charge batteries if configured to do so, which is why I really liked the quattro it seemed to really cover all the bases and potential utilization we'd have. I'm also "OK" using all the solar we have available and keeping the batteries for at night to say 25% then GRID for the handful of overnight hours until we get sun in the AM. In this regard it almost sounds like the 5kW units would suffice as long as the boost from GRID worked as described should we need the higher power. (Right now the only thing that would need > power would be when we add another one or two AC units.)

[Mike90250]

Why are you limiting yourself to many small controllers ? That adds up to a lot of wires to run and trace and troubleshoot. 620w is only 11A at battery voltage. All 7 controllers in parallel, you get 77A, which is good for a 800ah battery. Do those controllers network together or are they able to be calibrated to each other, so 3 are not in float, and 4 trying to finish absorb ?

Battery: Do you know what those batteries weigh ? Do you have a way to move them in and out of the battery room ? They make 4V and 2V batteries if you are looking for sizes you can move without renting a gorilla from the zoo. You will have the same # of caps for watering, but different quantity of interconnects.
Do you have a scheme to fit all the connections onto the battery terminals? Long stainless bolts to accommodate 7 charger leads and 1 inverter lead at the banks - + terminals ?

Inverter: There is the wattage of self consumption. Then there is efficiency. There will be a chart showing efficiency at all loading ranges (10% to 100%) Usually peak efficiency is in the 70-90% loading range.
Calculated as
30w Idle load, inverter only
200w appliances running
100w loading efficiency at only 8% of capacity, I'd expect to be poor
______
330 watts consumed by running a 200w load

Be sure to find out (in writing) how the inverter responds to unbalanced loads, 40w on L1, 300w on L2 and 800 on L1-L2 Some brands will require a balancing transformer to regain efficiency, some use the internal transformer to do this. (north american split phase 120/240v service)

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Why are you limiting yourself to many small controllers ? That adds up to a lot of wires to run and trace and troubleshoot. 620w is only 11A at battery voltage. All 7 controllers in parallel, you get 77A, which is good for a 800ah battery. Do those controllers network together or are they able to be calibrated to each other, so 3 are not in float, and 4 trying to finish absorb ?

Rather the opposite... I want redundancy, 1 or 2 controllers fail and I'll still get power. There will be wires to run no matter for this # of panels as cannot place them all in a single install location, and will also allow better output due to shading, shading is predictable but not the same even 5ft away due to different tree height in the distance.

From everything I've read you can run them together, and Victron has posted new firmware for certain models that couldn't previously. I will make 100%, but 99% now.

Battery: Do you know what those batteries weigh ? Do you have a way to move them in and out of the battery room ? They make 4V and 2V batteries if you are looking for sizes you can move without renting a gorilla from the zoo. You will have the same # of caps for watering, but different quantity of interconnects.

Yes approx 180-220 dry\weight. Not bad for 2 people, but I do have equipment I can use to move them too.

Do you have a scheme to fit all the connections onto the battery terminals? Long stainless bolts to accommodate 7 charger leads and 1 inverter lead at the banks - + terminals ?

Busbar \ Victron Lynx.

Inverter: There is the wattage of self consumption. Then there is efficiency. There will be a chart showing efficiency at all loading ranges (10% to 100%) Usually peak efficiency is in the 70-90% loading range.
Calculated as
30w Idle load, inverter only
200w appliances running
100w loading efficiency at only 8% of capacity, I'd expect to be poor
______
330 watts consumed by running a 200w load
Be sure to find out (in writing) how the inverter responds to unbalanced loads, 40w on L1, 300w on L2 and 800 on L1-L2 Some brands will require a balancing transformer to regain efficiency, some use the internal transformer to do this. (north american split phase 120/240v service)

I will, thanks for suggestion.