2000k system only puts out 500 watt why?

[charles2,david000k]

My own experience with fuses, is the contacts can get dirty/corroded, the resistance increases, they get warmer,
corrode faster, etc. Not the fuse, but the contact to the fuse holder. Bruce Roe

Hey just wanted to let you know you nailed it with the fuse bad contact I fixed it and upgraded to a 300A from the old 250A. Aims said it should have been a 300A in the first place.

[sensij]

My last post in this thread.... the resources being sunk into this system, by someone who claims to have little to spare, is saddening. As far as I can tell, the only purpose this off-grid system serves is to provide backup power for when the grid goes down. The money being thrown away on this would be better spent on a generator, and some fuel for it. The time spent watching You-tube and interacting on this forum could surely be spent in more productive ways.

Maybe the existing system can be sold on Ebay to recover some of the expense... people will buy anything there.

[charles2,david000k]

OK. There are several potential reasons for the fuse block to melt:
1. Most likely the fuse holder is just not intended to be used with that high a current.
2. There may be a bad connection between the wires and the fuse holder. Make sure you are using the right size wires, with crimped connectors if necessary and with the screws properly tightened.
3. It is also possible that you have a poor connection between the fuse and the holder. This would also come under the heading of bad design, so see item 1.

It is almost NEVER the result of the fuse itself getting too hot, because at that temperature the fuse would be expected to blow very quickly.

I am running off of a 250 Amp ANL fuse right now. I already ordered the 300 Amp replacement a few days ago it should already be here. I would like to move to a breaker like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300-AMP-12V-24V-DC-CIRCUIT-BREAKER-REPLACE-FUSE-300A-12-24VDC-FAST-FREE-USA-SHIP-/221518233704

but am really unsure of it due to a review I seen and the guy said the connection lugs seem to be 1 or 2 mm too small for 24V system online distributors is like playing russian roulette you just don't know till you try when you really just don't know anything about the product.



I hate my inlaws sometimes 2 hours sleep in 72 hours makes me grumpy day and night have become one big blur. I am sorry if I missed something but I am going to bed. sorry

[bcroe]

OK. There are several potential reasons for the fuse block to melt:
1. Most likely the fuse holder is just not intended to be used with that high a current.
2. There may be a bad connection between the wires and the fuse holder. Make sure you are using the right size wires, with crimped connectors if necessary and with the screws properly tightened.
3. It is also possible that you have a poor connection between the fuse and the holder. This would also come under the heading of bad design, so see item 1.

It is almost NEVER the result of the fuse itself getting too hot, because at that temperature the fuse would be expected to blow very quickly.

My own experience with fuses, is the contacts can get dirty/corroded, the resistance increases, they get warmer,
corrode faster, etc. Not the fuse, but the contact to the fuse holder. Bruce Roe

[inetdog]

... I am honestly doing what is in my budget I am mostly broke so funding is almost non existent. The fuse between the bank and inverter has got to be upgraded it got hot the other day and started to melt the fuse block and the wire jacket between the inverter.

OK. There are several potential reasons for the fuse block to melt:
1. Most likely the fuse holder is just not intended to be used with that high a current.
2. There may be a bad connection between the wires and the fuse holder. Make sure you are using the right size wires, with crimped connectors if necessary and with the screws properly tightened.
3. It is also possible that you have a poor connection between the fuse and the holder. This would also come under the heading of bad design, so see item 1.

It is almost NEVER the result of the fuse itself getting too hot, because at that temperature the fuse would be expected to blow very quickly.

[charles2,david000k]

Panel 5
10AM 4PM
65F
Vm 27.62
Ah 14.364
Ap 7.61
Wp 210.2
Wh 425.5



Panel 6
10am 4pm
Vm 33.35
Ah 3.285
Ap 6.67
Wp 222.5
Wh 100.6

[charles2,david000k]

Answering your questions has become something of an exercise in futility. Answering your question about nickel vs gold fuses is like seeing a post "so my house is on fire and it's spreading fast. Should I invest in double pane windows or leave the original single pane windows in place? Cause it doesn't seem so cold right now."

You have serious problems with your system. If you want to solve your problems, get someone competent in to look at it. At this point I feel like I'm enabling someone with a poorly designed system to feel good about not fixing it, and instead make meaningless tweaks and twiddles.

I actually did contact a few NABCEP certified technicians the first came out and said the system was correctly set up for what it is. Then I open my mouth about what a hard time I was having with the distributor and what had happen to panel number 8 and then the word lawsuit came in and they left refused to write up a report they are ranked 2015 top 500 solar contractors. The second came out spent two days going over the whole system and found the same thing except the first crew did bad panels with the exception of the cc was burnt out. I returned all 8 panels by freight and panel 8 the one the distributor claimed it was destroyed by me. But I already had the proof from the tech confirming the panel was not damaged when shipped. So I went and got the panels myself so I could see them test the panels myself. they gave me a new cc and tested the panel themselves in front of me but could not get any readings better than 35V and 5 Amps and refused to test panel 8 told me they were all fine and loaded them in my truck and sent me on my way. I personally felt this was wrong of them to do because I did not realize panel don't read what they are marked for. I thought you took the nominal peak power Pmax of 250W and subtracted 10% for the first 15 years makes 225W which means to me the panels wattage should not fall under 225W if set up correctly which I also thought they where according to the four tech's that have already been to my home and checked the system. I am honestly doing what is in my budget I am mostly broke so funding is almost non existent. The fuse between the bank and inverter has got to be upgraded it got hot the other day and started to melt the fuse block and the wire jacket between the inverter.

[jflorey2]

It is odd when the class is silent. It usually means I said something stupid or stumps the class so I will ask a different question off topic. Is there any difference in performance between gold and nickel fuses?

Answering your questions has become something of an exercise in futility. Answering your question about nickel vs gold fuses is like seeing a post "so my house is on fire and it's spreading fast. Should I invest in double pane windows or leave the original single pane windows in place? Cause it doesn't seem so cold right now."

You have serious problems with your system. If you want to solve your problems, get someone competent in to look at it. At this point I feel like I'm enabling someone with a poorly designed system to feel good about not fixing it, and instead make meaningless tweaks and twiddles.

[charles2,david000k]

It is odd when the class is silent. It usually means I said something stupid or stumps the class so I will ask a different question off topic. Is there any difference in performance between gold and nickel fuses?

[charles2,david000k]

panel number 4
7am to 4pm
temp 62F

Vm .41?
Ah 2.17
Ap 5.93
Wp 185.3? 64.7W off
Wh 66.3

It was sunny, clear and a cool 62F

Your opinion am I still within good range? The Vm volt max has been off with all readings or nonexistent but I found out the Vm is also related to the back up power supply I have hook in. When the 9volt backup is disconnected Vm reads 00.00 to 29.81 with all readings. With the backup power supply I get a Vm reading of .52 to .40 so that is why the Vm reading is off. I think I couldn't find any thing in the manual about this anomaly.

[charles2,david000k]

Looks like panel number 3 is going to check out at good. peak voltage was at 35 and the low was 23 but the 23V was under a hard load.


10am to 5:30 pm I pulled these reading of the panel


Wh 319.5
Ah 10.928
Wp 205.9
Vm 00.00
Ap 7.32

Not sure why the meter is not keeping track of the Volt max I will have to check the manual unless some else might know. But I do know when I came in for lunch I look at the inside meter and it read at 35V and I had to shut the water heater off when it pulled the panels down to 23V and tried to cook the fuse once again. I think I am going to take that heating loop and feed it to the water heater it would serve a better purpose there. would I have to put a inline pump for the heating loop? Or would the method of heat rises work to push the water through the system?

[jflorey2]

What does a LCB do exactly I would suspect it would work like a capacitor? Or would it bring the 24.4V down to 12V and boost current.

Sort of. If a motor wants 12 volts 5 amps, and you give it a supply limited to 12 volts 1 amp (i.e. a panel in the morning with very low angle sun) it won't start up. It will just sit there and get hot. However, if you give it a supply limited to 2 volts at 6 amps, the motor will start and just run more slowly. The LCB performs this impedance transformation.

I am still learning about capacitors they are (kinda) like a battery in that they hold a charge but not the same at a battery. I am pretty sure a capacitor dumps their power all at one time and has no electrolyte just two metal sheets that hold the charge. While a battery can be slowly drained. Like I said I am always learning so please feel free to correct me I don't want to lean the wrong thing!

An LCB does not work like a capacitor, although LCB's contain capacitors.

Both batteries and capacitors can be slowly drained. One difference is that batteries have specific voltages you have to charge and discharge them at; capacitors can be used from zero volts up to their rated voltage.

Some capacitors have two metal sheets with a dielectric between them. Some capacitors have electrolyte that functions as a dielectric. (They are called, unsurprisingly, electrolytic capacitors.)

[inetdog]

What does a LCB do exactly I would suspect it would work like a capacitor? Or would it bring the 24.4V down to 12V and boost current. I am still learning about capacitors they are (kinda) like a battery in that they hold a charge but not the same at a battery. I am pretty sure a capacitor dumps their power all at one time and has no electrolyte just two metal sheets that hold the charge. While a battery can be slowly drained. Like I said I am always learning so please feel free to correct me I don't want to lean the wrong thing!

OK, first the LCB. The problem with a direct panel to pump connection is that the panel Vmp voltage will not go down as the panel power goes down, so a constant resistance at the pump will cause the panel voltage to be pulled down from Vmp cutting the efficiency of the power transfer from panel to pump by a large fraction. Easily half the power lost and the pump may not even have enough current to start but sit there with its motor coils cooking without water flow to cool them (in the case of a submersible pump, that is.)

As the available panel current goes down the LCB will take the available current at the Vmp voltage and convert it to a higher current at a lower voltage. That lower voltage will still go down at some point to reduce the power drain of the pump, but the pump will get the maximum panel power without waste.
The LCB may also include a low (output) voltage cutoff to protect the pump motor.
It is a lot like an MPPT CC except that the output voltage is not fixed, it is varied to match the available power with the pump acting as a constant resistance rather than a constant voltage load.

As for the capacitor, charge is charge and can be withdrawn from the capacitor either slowly or all at once, whichever you need for the application. The problem is that the voltage across the capacitor varies linearly with the charge it is holding. That means that the load has to be able to tolerate a factor of two variation in input power in order to get 3/4 of the stored power of the capacitor out. The battery voltage is restricted to a much smaller range between max and min SOC for operation.

[charles2,david000k]

24V requires thinner gauge wire for the wiring runs, which means it will be cheaper. However there are more devices available for 12V. Use fuses/breakers based on the smallest wire gauge in the run, the temperature rating of the wire and how many conductors you are running together.

Won't work.

Sure, but you will need something called an LCB (linear current booster) to allow the pump to start reliably. They are about $150.

What does a LCB do exactly I would suspect it would work like a capacitor? Or would it bring the 24.4V down to 12V and boost current. I am still learning about capacitors they are (kinda) like a battery in that they hold a charge but not the same at a battery. I am pretty sure a capacitor dumps their power all at one time and has no electrolyte just two metal sheets that hold the charge. While a battery can be slowly drained. Like I said I am always learning so please feel free to correct me I don't want to lean the wrong thing!

[jflorey2]

I don't know my stove gets pretty hot it set up to work a lot like a rocket stove and my heating loop is in the mouth of the flue pipe I melt lead and aluminum in it some times and when I first started out with the heating loop I started with a water grade copper which worked out fine until the water ran out then the pipe started to warp and melt copper melts somewhere around 1,900 F.

Temperature is not the same as heat. It's easy to generate a very high temperature; much harder to generate enough heat to run a steam engine. (And the smaller it is, the less efficient it is.)

What gauge would I run for a 12V supply about 70ft max. I just want to run lights off this but the home is 40ft long so I figure 70ft gives me room for obstickal I might have to work around from power source to fuse box.

What current will you need? (you can get this from the total wattage of lights you plan to run)