2000k system only puts out 500 watt why?

[sensij]

I think he needs the dump load for his wind generation (from his diagram.) They are unregulated wild AC types that require a load at all times to prevent overspeed; you can't disconnect them as you would with a standard PWM controller.

I don't think op has wind, it looks like a generic diagram from the reseller.

How does a diversion controller get through absorb? If the array is making more power (current) than the battery can take, the voltage will rise and trip the relay. If the array is generating less current, it will trickle charge, but not truly top off.

[jflorey2]

There is no need for a dump relay / solenoid in a PV system. It does not put your system in "float", it disconnects the array completely.

I think he needs the dump load for his wind generation (from his diagram.) They are unregulated wild AC types that require a load at all times to prevent overspeed; you can't disconnect them as you would with a standard PWM controller.

Dump loads (i.e. diversion controllers) can work pretty well, and can do as good a job as a standard PWM controller in terms of regulating battery voltage and completing charge cycles. There are some unique issues though:

-The load has to be able to take the maximum power the system can generate (high wind, cloud lensing, cold day, snow on ground etc.) So it will often be big.
-It does not "fail safe." If the controller fails the system goes open loop and voltages get very high. (One reason it's a bad idea to use incandescent light bulbs as loads - they burn out.)

I've seen at least one installation that has two loads - the standard controller with a smaller load for 90% of the regulation, and a larger controller set to a slightly higher voltage with a much larger load. That way you don't have to oversize the first load, and you have a backup to prevent system damage if the first controller/load fails.

[inetdog]

A Fluke 75 will only measure 10 amps. Not sure what you were seeing.

And trying to put through 60A on the 10A range will blow an internal fuse.
Once the fuse is blown it is not at all clear what if anything the meter is measuring if one tries to use that range.

[jflorey2]

Fluke 75 multimeter. When we set up we went in 3 stages. After the first stage it was the panels we tested at the combiner box with meter to dc amps and pulled 64 amps from the combiner box.

A Fluke 75 will only measure 10 amps. Not sure what you were seeing.

I am looking into replacing the charge controler but don't want some expensive charge controller that is going to work like junk and burn out.

Then get a good one. There are some excellent charge controllers out there.

My battery bank needs to be bigger two 12 volt 70Ah series together to make 24 just don't work I am also going to expand the battery bank to 6 sets of 2 giving me 420Ah.

Putting lots of lead acid batteries in parallel generally doesn't work well, and will result in batteries with very short lives. You are much better off getting batteries that allow you to use a single (or at most 2) strings of batteries.

The solenoid put the panels into float mode when voltage reaches a certain preset voltage. I pulled the old one apart and you could see where the contacts stuck. I tried to clean up the contacts but the wire coil had burnt up . . . .

So you are operating without a charge controller now? That's a very bad idea, and will likely result in problems for both your battery pack and inverter as voltages get too high. BTW your controller is a shunt load controller, which means you need those loads on it.

[sensij]

I am looking into replacing the charge controler but don't want some expensive charge controller that is going to work like junk and burn out. My battery bank needs to be bigger two 12 volt 70Ah series together to make 24 just don't work I am also going to expand the battery bank to 6 sets of 2 giving me 420Ah.

Thanks for posting all of the additional information. A couple of quick thoughts...

There is no need for a dump relay / solenoid in a PV system. It does not put your system in "float", it disconnects the array completely. A "charge controller" of this type is capable of completing only the "bulk" stage of a traditional charge cycle, which means you will never get more than 80-90% SOC, gradually less as chronic undercharging reduces the capacity over time. With only the battery to regulate the array voltage, it won't be operating at its maximum power point very much of the time. There are inexpensive MPPT controllers that will do a much better job for you.

If you want more battery capacity (and based on the loads you want to run, that is a good idea), get away from the 12 V batteries. 6 pairs in parallel will be impossible to balance and will not last very long. To get 420 Ah at 24 V, you should look at 4 x 6 V batteries, 420 Ah each, creating a single 24 V string. The 370 Ah Trojan L16RE-B, or something like it, would be a much better choice.

[charles2,david000k]

I am going to try and go over setup of the system please forgive me if I missed anything.

This is on 8 solar panels 250watt
We did this in three stages

stage #1 We build the frame/stand with the left facing east center facing south and the right side to the west so panels would get good sun. We unloaded panels off pallet and tested each one as they came off. I set my Fluke 75 multimeter to DC volts or Amp with red probe going from + to red volt Ohm diode test and - to black/com and pulled 38V 64amps. Then we mounted the panels to the rack and ran ground to it's own grounding rod. we then put our wiring harness together to run sets of two panels in parallel at a time to the combiner box. ran all my positives to positive and all my negatives to negative in my combiner box. Then went back and hooked up one panel at a time to the wiring harness negative first then positive all the way down the line until I got to the combiner box. At that point we tested using the same method above and got a reading of 38 volts and 64 amps.

stage #2 We ran 4 Awg jumper cable wire from combiner box black- first then red+ next and took reading for voltage drop reading still same 38V 64A. Then with the disconnect disconnected I ran 4 Awg black- to battery bank and 4Awg red+ to charge controller then to the battery bank. and hooked the two charge controller sensor wires to the battery bank black to - and red to + and tested charge controller black probe to - in panel side of the disconnect box and the + red to panel input on charge controler same reading moved red probe to solenoid panel output and got same reading. checked battery bank and got 25v and 10A

stage #3 We ran the ground for the inverter then 2Awg wire from battery bank to the inverter negative first then positive to inline 250 amp 32v audiopipe fuse 7 inches from inverter then ran 2Awg the rest of the way to the inverters. At that point we turn the inverter on and all ran good after that we ran are AC wiring to the 200 amp panel through a 40 amp breaker and flipped the system back on. O no grid power It would kill the inverter if you feed both inverter output and gid in to same panel we later ran the grid power to a 100 amp sub panel with another 40 amp breaker to feed the inverter. What the inverter is set up to do is bypass grid power from outside utility meter to inside 200 amp main service panel. When the grid goes down or becomes unstable it switches within a 10th of a second to battery bank.

I was to start off with 8 panel and later buy 8 more but with the drop off after 3 month and no one touched the thing except me to mop the panels off of dust I have not bought the rest and won't.

But when it did run the only thing that gave the inverter a hard time with no grid feed was a water heater and that was if it had been left off for days and tried to turn on with no grid power and its 220V 4,500 watts. But then again inverter out put is 115V 20amps AC on each hot leg. I did my own rough in and passed first time but this is holding me up also on my final electrical inspection. Build my own home from the ground up. Hopefuly I can get a methane digester in by next summer and be 100% off grid.

landscape is ten acres of cleared land at the top of a mountain nothing but rock the deepest you can dig is 5 foot and that's my well you can see the Tennessee Smokies on a clear day great line of sight but pore reception on anything unless its satellite and that's over head old nextel use to work here but not well I think it has something to do with the high voltage line that cut over the mountain close to here coming from watts bar nuclear power plant. They have had a downed tower due to a leak since the early 90s but say they have it fixed and are bringing it up in december.

I am looking into replacing the charge controler but don't want some expensive charge controller that is going to work like junk and burn out. My battery bank needs to be bigger two 12 volt 70Ah series together to make 24 just don't work I am also going to expand the battery bank to 6 sets of 2 giving me 420Ah.

1442182452435.jpg1442182427385.jpg1442182284048.jpginverter tag.jpgMW440ECCDIG_24V_500.jpg3pall_DIG & 3phbcDIG inst. sheetWHITE COVER .pdfSolarFennel250 (4).pdf

I tried to get my drawling to upload but file was to big. The photo of the panels are to show browning and bubbles on the solder. This is what I first thought could be causing the problems.

[charles2,david000k]

How did you measured the 60+ A ? What device did you used and how ?

Fluke 75 multimeter. When we set up we went in 3 stages. After the first stage it was the panels we tested at the combiner box with meter to dc amps and pulled 64 amps from the combiner box. and I thought the meter was bad but I just checked it with a 12 volt battery charger because the dog chewed the cord and it read 13-14 volts 6.5 amps on a 12v 6amp charger. I also checked the panels when I first got them by inserting red probe to + and black to - then checked voltage and current when we first pulled the panels off the pallet. They all pulled 38.1V and 8.6 to 8.7A. I don't have a clamp type meter but am looking into picking one up.

[charles2,david000k]

Most likely he doesn't know what he has. It appears to be a shunt controller that activates a solenoid as a dumpload controller when it hit's 28.8V. His diagram shows a CC with a solenoid directly above it.

WWW

No shunt I was thinking of getting one. It is a dumpload controller but it just puts the panel on float.

[charles2,david000k]

For those that missed it, This is a dumpload controller. When battery voltage is 28.8V it dumps everything from the wind genny and solar panels to a dumpload (heating element.

If the panels are only putting out 5 amps to the dumpload then you need to check and make sure one of your heating elements isn't burnt out.

WWW

No heating elements. The solenoid put the panels into float mode when voltage reaches a certain preset voltage. I pulled the old one apart and you could see where the contacts stuck. I tried to clean up the contacts but the wire coil had burnt up also and I have never rewrapped a coil I would lose count of my turns but I have the basic ideal.

[charles2,david000k]

If this is really so important to you, I think you should take this opportunity to step back and really evaluate the system you've put together.

You said your batteries are 70 Ah AGM, maybe something like these. 70 Ah * 24 V * 50% DOD = 840 Wh of energy available. Yet, you are using a 6000 W inverter? That 70 Ah rating is a 20 hr discharge rating... 70 Ah/20 h = 3.5A * 24 V = 84 W. Discharging at even 1000 W continuously is way more than these batteries can handle.

What loads do you need to power in winter? How much energy per day? The performance problems you've been assigning to the panels could easily be a result of a battery that has been worn out.

They look the same but mine are glass mat AGM I know lead acid batteries. The inverter is an AIMS Global LF Series Pure Sine Wave Inverter/ Chargers 6,000watts with a 18w for motor start ups. inverter tag.jpginverter tag.jpg

http://www.aimscorp.net/documents/PICOGLF60W24V240VS.pdf

The first set of batteries did infact burn out but what I have now are the new batteries. I suspect the first set burnt out due to the charge controller that came with the set it got stuck in the on position and would not switch to dump mode and battery voltage got as high as 38 volts. It also caused the 250 amp inline fuse to blow out 4 times. When the system went down it started by cooking the batteries and charge controller the charge controler got stuck on or there was to much of a load for it to read as full and kept the panel connected causing the inverter to pull from the panels through the batteries. The Audiopipe ANL fuses are only rated for 250 amps at 32 Volts.

The system suport a few thing.

7 Lights 13 watt each. Phones ? Refrigerator. I was thinking of a old broken one with a padlock for a bear proof box so we can leave stuff outside in winter. we have black bears! An they do not hibernate in winter just nap until it warms up a little. DVR for security cameras ? Fans for moving heat off of a wood burning stove which we cook on also when power is out. Water pump. Two different kind depending on the weather one primary jet pump and the other a very small sump pump. We collect rainwater and have a small 5 foot deep well. The sump pump pulls water from the well and feeds it to 4 ICB totes that hold roughly 350 gallon each with a total holding capacity 1,400 gallons. and a small space heater for defrosting ricks of wood when we bring them in after a ice storm.

[Raul]

I just don't understand why when we got done setting up we pulled 38 volts and 64 amps from the combiner box with the rest of the system disconnected and no one touched the system until after it had it's drop to 34 volts and 17 amps. I did the same test the same way unless there is some thing wrong with the panels or my meter. ok some new findings may be I pulled my meter apart and found three fuses inside two inuse and one extra fuse. Now I don't know if this is the correct way of doing this but I took my little back up meter and turned it to ohms and stuck the +- probes to the different side of the fuses after pulling them out and got nothing off the two that was in use but the back up fuse got a reading does this mean these fuses are blown and is why I am getting a bad reading?


brb going to google the fuse

How did you measured the 60+ A ? What device did you used and how ?

[jflorey2]

Most likely he doesn't know what he has. It appears to be a shunt controller that activates a solenoid as a dumpload controller when it hit's 28.8V. His diagram shows a CC with a solenoid directly above it.

I think you're right. The "solenoid" is a relay that connects the dump loads to the battery when voltage rises above X as measured by the charge controller. The relay has to be connected to the CC by wiring not shown on the diagram.

[lkruper]

No sir. Float can draw full power aka full current.

I was thinking of the third stage of three-stage charging after bulk and absorb. Once it gets to that point, don't the amps just replace what is being lost? Are you referring the amperage at float voltage for a discharged battery?

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Solinoid? That is even worse than PWM

Nothing is wrong with your system, you just do not know how it works.

Most likely he doesn't know what he has. It appears to be a shunt controller that activates a solenoid as a dumpload controller when it hit's 28.8V. His diagram shows a CC with a solenoid directly above it.

WWW

[Wy_White_Wolf]

For those that missed it, This is a dumpload controller. When battery voltage is 28.8V it dumps everything from the wind genny and solar panels to a dumpload (heating element.

If the panels are only putting out 5 amps to the dumpload then you need to check and make sure one of your heating elements isn't burnt out.

WWW