reducing the amount of batteries required

[falsenemy]

I am trying to envision the best off grid system possible. From what I understand a person should use wind/hydro for the constant usage like fridges for night time. Solar panels would be used to attack the use during the day. I can't see how using only batteries to store power when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine would be useful. I would simply have enough batteries to handle the extra load when your electronics start up.

is there a better system out there to tackle the energy storage problem? gas generators work, but That kind of defeats the purpose.

Running something on methane or ethanol would be feasible I think.
There's other forms of batteries out there. You could for example have your water tank quite elevated and on days that you have lot's of sun/wind then you fill your tank from your well. On days that you don't have sun/wind then you use the stored energy in your tank to offset that day.

You could create workout equipment that generates power and only workout on days you need power...


Are there any other ways to store energy?

[russ]

Hi falsenmy - Welcome to Solar Panel talk!

Many ways to store energy - none of them are attractive at this time with batteries still being the best solution.

One you mentioned was pumping water - that takes an immense amount of storage and head (even per kW) - not attractive and generally not possible.

Whether it is methanol, ethanol, methane (methane is natural gas), LPG or diesel really makes no difference. Fuel is fuel.

Batteries are the subject of big time engineering efforts at this time. They will improve dramatically but that is a few years down the road.

Russ

[MarineLiner]

Hi falsenmy - Welcome to Solar Panel talk!
.....
One you mentioned was pumping water - that takes an immense amount of storage and head (even per kW) - not attractive and generally not possible.

[Sunking]

I am trying to envision the best off grid system possible. From what I understand a person should use wind/hydro for the constant usage like fridges for night time.

Couple of big flaws in that logic. One very few regions of the country get the kind of winds nessecary to use wind, and winds die down at nights.

Solar panels would be used to attack the use during the day. I can't see how using only batteries to store power when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine would be useful. I would simply have enough batteries to handle the extra load when your electronics start up.

You only get 2 to 6 hours of actual sun production per day depending on time of year and location. Good luck

[falsenemy]

With regards to the water concept I was thinking of a 2 or 3 tiered system where you can pull from the well for your drinking water, but having a gray water tank set up for your toilet and another tank for your shower/laundry. On days where you have extra energy you would elevate the water reducing the need for a pump when you shower or flush your toilet.
I suppose having a turbine system hooked up to the gray water tank to generate power might help especially if you get a lot of rain water that you can tap into when needed.

I'm interested in tapping into the methane of a septic tank or compost bin... I should scroogle it.

What about HHO? you is there any commercial system available that can safely store HHO?

[Sunking]

What about HHO? you is there any commercial system available that can safely store HHO?

HHO? don't waste your time with it.

[russ]

Do you mean Santa Claus or do you mean hydrogen.

In the event you mean hydrogen it is H20 and not HHO.

[Mike90250]

HHO is a scam sold to those who never took physics or chemistry.

Browns Gas is a oddity, but the argument against using the gas as a fuel is that the energy required to split water molecules exceeds the energy recouped by burning it.

All cars using HHO, still have a regular gas tank, and eventually will show a decrease in mileage, unless you plug in at home to recharge the battery or produce more Gas for the next trip.

It's also nicely explosive

electrolysis: 2 H2O → 2 H2 + O2
combustion: 2 H2 + O2 → 2 H2O

[russ]

For the HHO - water is a very stable material - very strong bonds. You have to break those bonds to create free H2 using electricity and then combustion recombines the two elements to make water again.

Same basic product as electrolysis and same problem - the energy input is excessive - not many people have adequate rooftop for that many panels - even if we had 24 hour sun.

like Mike pointed out - it is a scam looking for suckers that are not familiar with the chemistry. If you see it advertised on a somewhat reputable site I would encourage to complain to the site.

Today, on a residential basis, there is no usable solution available for storage except batteries.

Gray water should only be stored in a barrel for maybe a day before use. The gunk in it makes it difficult to filter or pump and in a few days it will change into black water. In many places the use is strictly controlled - often stating it can only be used for the yard and must be discharged sub surface.

[russ]

Just came across an article on Browns Gas (Oxyhydrogen) on New Energy & Fuel http://newenergyandfuel.com/http:/ne...free-hydrogen/

This is truly a scary idea. The product H2 and O2 gases come off jointly. Very much easier to have a flammable or explosive mix than when the gases are separate. There is always static electricity around and that will easily ignite H2.

I can see some idiot placing this in the house as in the image in the article. Good way to get rid of mothers-in-law I suppose!

I spent my years working with these gases and they demand respect. If you don't take all the precautions and safety measures they will do very bad things.

I doubt they will ever manage to sell the units for residential installation - that would be a lawyer's paradise!

[BajaGringo]

Your thinking (on wind) is mostly correct but it is true that wind does not work well everywhere. We live offgrid down here on a remote beach in Baja California, Mexico and we are "blessed" with a lot of wind, and it rarely slows down at night. Mornings are usually our slowest times and our wind turbine really helps out keeping the batteries from discharging much at night watching TV on the big screen, exterior lighting and the fridge.

Take some time to do your homework before just jumping in and good luck!!!

[kulasisi]

power on days w/o sun

is it possible to use a dc generator to replenish the battery during those bad times/ generator using dc motor.

[BajaGringo]

is it possible to use a dc generator to replenish the battery during those bad times/ generator using dc motor.

Like a gas powered DC generator? Sure. Or you could just run a regular generator and plug a DC charger into the AC outlet of the generator. If you are living off-grid as we do then the best idea is to find a way to run your loads and keep your batteries always above 80% without needing anything but the sun/wind.

That requires good planning, evaluation, conservation and the right balance of solar panels / wind turbines (if you are in a windy area) and batteries to your energy needs.

Realistic expectations in terms of your circumstances and available budget will help too...