Off-grid system review

[Cult of Dionysus]

Yup, sorry, those should be periods, not commas. I'm so used to reading the MATE3, which gives KwH readings as 4.100 KwH.

lol

Sunking, your correct, my bank has about 40kWh. Though I rarely use more than about 5 KwH per night (to about 85% SOC), and that's with 70" tv, dishwasher, lights, and about 2 hours of irrigation. They are rated to be drawn down to 50% SOC (perhaps not every day, but regularly). So they have more than 10kWh/nighly of useable power.

[Sunking]

Looks like the cult may be better at revelry than understanding electricity.

There is so much wrong with what he says makes me think it is all Make Believe. He does not even know a 48 volt 824 AH battery has a capacity of 40 Kwh with only 10 Kwh/daily usable. So where is the missing 3900 Kwh going too? I know, the land of OZ. Only off by a factor of 100.

[J.P.M.]

Impossible. That would take a 1,000,000 watt system the size a Walmart or Coop generates. It would take a month or longer to generate 4000 Kwh.

Looks like the cult may be better at revelry than understanding electricity.

[Sunking]

This system gives him about 4,000 KwH of power from sunset to sunrise,

Impossible. That would take a 1,000,000 watt system the size a Walmart or Coop generates. It would take a month or longer to generate 4000 Kwh.

[J.P.M.]

Just want to give an update on my system.

We are now about 24 months into system activation, and we've had smooth sailing with the following system:

18 270w Panels
8 Rolls-Surrette 6 CS 27P Batteries (824Ah/48volts)
Outback FlexPower Two with a pair of FM 80s Charge Controllers
Hub 10 / Mate 3
Honda 5000EM Genset
Two Grundfox 0.75HP 240v VFDs Pumps (for house and irrigation)
One 1.5HP 240v VFD for Reverse Osmosis (which runs 5-8 hours per day)

Typically, the batteries go down to about 85%SOC at night (and that's with one load of dishes and a 70" tv going for about 3 hours) and recharge by about 10:30 a.m. On the occasional rainy day, I'll not run the RO system, and we don't need to touch the Honda 5000. If we get more than one day of rain, then I'll run the Honda for about 2-3 hours per day.

We're lucky to be in an arid, sun-drenched part of Hawaii. We get perhaps 10 days of truly bad weather, so we can get away with a relatively small battery bank.

And my dad just built a 900 sq. ft. house on the adjacent lot. He's going with a much smaller system, as he doesn't have an RO system.

12 270w Panels
8 Rolls-Surrette S550 (428AH/48 Volts)
OutbackFlexPower Two with one FM80 CC
HUB 10 / MATE 3
Honda 5000 EM
One Grundfos 0.75HP 240 VFD pump (for house and irrigation)

This system gives him about 4,000 KwH of power from sunset to sunrise, which is about 1,000 KwH more than he actually needs. The TV/SatReceiver, the modem & WiFi router, and even the fridge are all on electrical outlets with power switches nearby. So before he goes to bed, he can kill power to all those, if he wants to. That means he can reduce draw to about 0.100 Kw per hour. All the lights are LEDs, the stove/oven is propane. He can watch 3 - 4 hours of tv on his 65" Samsung and do a load of dishes, and has enough power to get him to sunrise.

"4,000 KwH (sic) of power from sunrise to sunset" ? I kinda' doubt it.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Just want to give an update on my system.

We are now about 24 months into system activation, and we've had smooth sailing with the following system:

18 270w Panels
8 Rolls-Surrette 6 CS 27P Batteries (824Ah/48volts)
Outback FlexPower Two with a pair of FM 80s Charge Controllers
Hub 10 / Mate 3
Honda 5000EM Genset
Two Grundfox 0.75HP 240v VFDs Pumps (for house and irrigation)
One 1.5HP 240v VFD for Reverse Osmosis (which runs 5-8 hours per day)

Typically, the batteries go down to about 85%SOC at night (and that's with one load of dishes and a 70" tv going for about 3 hours) and recharge by about 10:30 a.m. On the occasional rainy day, I'll not run the RO system, and we don't need to touch the Honda 5000. If we get more than one day of rain, then I'll run the Honda for about 2-3 hours per day.

We're lucky to be in an arid, sun-drenched part of Hawaii. We get perhaps 10 days of truly bad weather, so we can get away with a relatively small battery bank.

And my dad just built a 900 sq. ft. house on the adjacent lot. He's going with a much smaller system, as he doesn't have an RO system.

12 270w Panels
8 Rolls-Surrette S550 (428AH/48 Volts)
OutbackFlexPower Two with one FM80 CC
HUB 10 / MATE 3
Honda 5000 EM
One Grundfos 0.75HP 240 VFD pump (for house and irrigation)

This system gives him about 4 kWh of power from sunset to sunrise, which is about 1 kWh more than he actually needs. The TV/SatReceiver, the modem & WiFi router, and even the fridge are all on electrical outlets with power switches nearby. So before he goes to bed, he can kill power to all those, if he wants to. That means he can reduce draw to about 100 Watts per hour. All the lights are LEDs, the stove/oven is propane. He can watch 3 - 4 hours of tv on his 65" Samsung and do a load of dishes, and has enough power to get him to sunrise.

[Mike90250]

clouds screw it all up.

[sensij]

The midnight classic has 4 solar MPPT algorithms, all of which I have found to under perform the Tristar .

Is that because it doesn't run the sweep often enough? Lousy at finding the peak in complicated conditions?

[Mike90250]

The midnight classic has 4 solar MPPT algorithms, all of which I have found to under perform the Tristar .

[sensij]

From what I can see for the Midnite Solar controller, there is not an officially released program to do the settings... just the monitoring (and it is pretty). There is some user generated software available through their forums (AXS), but it is not as "refined" as Morningstar's (if that word can even apply to such utilitarian software as this).

Bad information here, Midnite Solar's "Local App" can do more than monitoring. (Thanks Mike).

Here is a post with some screenshots to show you what it looks like, at least as of a couple years ago.

http://midniteftp.com/forum/index.ph...24192#msg24192

Sort of interesting that the sweep timing is manually set, as opposed to the logic BackwoodsEE has been describing for the Morningstar in his IV curve thread.

[BackwoodsEE]

I haven't got to the Classic yet, but I have been trying to fully understand the Morningstar line. I have read the operators manual, and all of the others I can find, and it seems to me I keep coming back to "For a full list of settings, refer to the Help Section of the MS-View software."

Is there any documentation for these settings, or do I really have to install the MS-View software? (assuming it will run without some kind of 'key' or network contact with the actual Morningstar product)

Yes, it will install with no key or connection. You then connect it to the Morningstar product via Ethernet or serial, swear a bit as you try to get the MODBUS connection parameters right and shake your head at how crude the user interface is, and then have more detailed control of the device.

So much control, in fact, that you can enter a setting that locks you out of further Ethernet communication with the device. I did that about four months ago and haven't bothered trying to hook it up via serial to fix it, because it's been too busy a summer of working on my "real" solar installation and I don't need the additional frustration.

I did order some more Morningstar charge controllers for that installation, though, for what it's worth. Very impressed with how they perform otherwise.

[AzRoute66]

Of course, youtube comments for product technical documentation. I should have thought of that. I am such a tadpole.

[sensij]

sensij, I asked for a fish, you gave me a fish, thank you. Pretty much exactly what I wanted. If it is not a problem, could you tell me how you found that file (teach me to fish...). I now know what I am looking for (and have the link) and still can't 'navigate' to it on my own. I have scoured the documentation for TS-MPPT line, support, documents, searched for MS-View, etc.

I'm not much of a teacher, but i can at least show you the corner of the pond I was fishing in. One of the rare times that YouTube actually provided useful information.

Click "show more" under the text below the video, and you'll see a bunch of links, including the MSView manual. Since the video was published by morningstar, and all of the links go to their site, this met my quality filter and I looked at it more closely than I normally would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4h2QAAz8Sg

From what I can see for the Midnite Solar controller, there is not an officially released program to do the settings... just the monitoring (and it is pretty). There is some user generated software available through their forums (AXS), but it is not as "refined" as Morningstar's (if that word can even apply to such utilitarian software as this).

[Sunking]

Mike, I wasn't disbelieving you, I was just trying to find it on the website without purchasing a unit or installing the software. Thanks for the heads up on the Classic.

sensij, I asked for a fish, you gave me a fish, thank you. Pretty much exactly what I wanted. If it is not a problem, could you tell me how you found that file (teach me to fish...). I now know what I am looking for (and have the link) and still can't 'navigate' to it on my own. I have scoured the documentation for TS-MPPT line, support, documents, searched for MS-View, etc.

General observation. Even that file does not elaborate on the constraints. e.g. Sunking has given the rationale behind 'Smoke' charging and setting the voltage thresholds, times, etc. a certain way IF THE CONTROLLER ALLOWS it, and to the closest available set points if not.

Chill out my friend. Any of the two controllers will do what you want and need. Both can be done from the Control Panel or Software.

Both those controllers will allow you to set a custom algorithm. Of course they have defaults which are generic and safe as deemed by Lawyers. The resolution is 0.1 volts, so in practice on a 12 volt battery you have 8 Set Points of 14.2 14.3 .... 14.9. In practice boils down to 3 setting in most applications. Being in AZ, if designed correctly will use a lower range. At the end of the day 14,5, 14.6, 14.7, and 14.8. You might be fortunate and only need 14.4 volts. Your hydrometer will tell you. Keep turning up the voltage .1 volts/day until you reach full charge by sun down. As the season and your usage pattern change will require a change in voltage when your hydrometer says it needs changed.

So relax.

[AzRoute66]

Mike, I wasn't disbelieving you, I was just trying to find it on the website without purchasing a unit or installing the software. Thanks for the heads up on the Classic.

sensij, I asked for a fish, you gave me a fish, thank you. Pretty much exactly what I wanted. If it is not a problem, could you tell me how you found that file (teach me to fish...). I now know what I am looking for (and have the link) and still can't 'navigate' to it on my own. I have scoured the documentation for TS-MPPT line, support, documents, searched for MS-View, etc.

General observation. Even that file does not elaborate on the constraints. e.g. Sunking has given the rationale behind 'Smoke' charging and setting the voltage thresholds, times, etc. a certain way IF THE CONTROLLER ALLOWS it, and to the closest available set points if not. I suspect that level of detail is one reason why forums such as this exist, it's not readily available - your recourse is to ask someone that has one or trying to explain what your question is over the phone to every company out there that might sell what you are looking for...