Best or Most Efficient Window Air Conditioner

[BilljustBill]

I'm considering using my panels to charge a 48 volt battery bank and 1500 watt PSW inverter to run a window air conditioner at night.

Do you have insight or experience with 110 volt window units that make the most out of the power from PV's and deep cycle batteries?

Brands? Places for Best Prices?

Thanks,
Bill

[Mike90250]

Look for high SER units. Sanyo has a very nifty "Mini-split" system that slowly ramps up fan and compressor speed, but it's pricey.

[oron123]

One of the easiest ideas is by prioritizing and considering window air conditioning products that have Energy Star approval....

[Sunking]

Bill are you a very rich person who has more money that you know what to do with? I hope so because that is what you are asking for.

The best Window Shakers run around SEER of 12, and they are quite expensive, but not near as expensive of the solar equipment to run one.

Example let's say you buy a 1 ton window shaker, rated 12 SEER, live in Kansas City, and want to run it 12 hours per day from May 1 to September 30. You need:

4000 watt solar panel
80 Amp MPPT Charge Controller
1250 AH Battery @ 48 Volts
2 Kw TSW Inverter
Misc Hardware $1000

Go price that out and see what you think. FWIW it will generate about $1.50/day worth of electricity.

[BilljustBill]

Bill are you a very rich person who has more money that you know what to do with? I hope so because that is what you are asking for.

The best Window Shakers run around SEER of 12, and they are quite expensive, but not near as expensive of the solar equipment to run one.

Example let's say you buy a 1 ton window shaker, rated 12 SEER, live in Kansas City, and want to run it 12 hours per day from May 1 to September 30. You need:

4000 watt solar panel
80 Amp MPPT Charge Controller
1250 AH Battery @ 48 Volts
2 Kw TSW Inverter
Misc Hardware $1000

Go price that out and see what you think. FWIW it will generate about $1.50/day worth of electricity.

I see you point of view, but I think you're looking at my question from the backwards view point... ;>) Let me explain my logic and point of view......

No, I'm not a rich BMW/Lexus person..... Building my own solar panel system (as a hobby or just being selfsufficient) is going to cost money, no doubt. Actually, for the last 14 months, I'm using profits from having major size garage sales, and as a buyer at local garage sales. I've been buying sterling silver and a little gold jewelry found at city wide garage sales, then sending it to a refiner for cash... So, actually, I'm building my solar-electric system with "other people's" money....and then the 30% tax credit I'll get back from Uncle Sam.... Plus, I've tried my best to assemble the solar panels and equipment at the lowest possible costs. One example is buying an Outback 3500w inverter for the lowest total price I've ever found from "The Solar Biz" website. Another example is 20 new Kaneka 60w panels, including free shipping at the time, for a cost of $800 or .66-cents a watt.... Saving more by doing my own labor and installation, etc.

I'll already have a 3kw-4kw solar panel system that will be powering circuits in the house and lights in the outbuildings. Here in Texas, most central HVAC systems run on 220v. Along with my water wells, cookstove, clothes drawer, AC/DC welder, including the home A/C system, they all take 220 volts that I'll have to use the grid's power/meter to run them. My quest is to power most everything else that runs on 110v. with an operational system by October of this year.....

Two nights ago, we sat in the dark after high winds and a thunderstorm made hundreds of homes sit in the dark when power was knocked out. Humidity was high, winds were strong, and opening up the house would have caused much added discomfort, compared to the discomfort of keeping the home closed-up, even with no moving air at all.

Powered by my eight 440ah batteries, having a small and highly efficent window unit for a single room would provide a higher comfort level and quality of sleep as outside conditions get worse... If/When electricity costs go up, or rolling blackouts start again, using a smaller and efficent window unit is better than having a 220v A/C system sitting there non-operational....

Just trying to make the solar electric system as efficient as possible was my quest for an A/C window or micro system names and models....

[Sunking]

Good luck Bill. You cannot cheat the battery man. A 60 Kw battery will cost you $7000+, and cheap grade B solar cells that will fail you in a couple of years adds another $5000 plus a month of building full time.

FWIW Fijitsu DC 48 Volt DC powered ductless is the most efficient but a 1 ton unit will cost you $3000 for a 14 SEER unit, or a Walmart 1 ton window shaker @ 10 SEER $200 + $50/month electric bill.

[russ]

One flaw - no 30% rebate on DIY

[Sunking]

One flaw - no 30% rebate on DIY

No nothing from anyone!

[BilljustBill]

No nothing from anyone!

Russ & Sunking,

No, the 8 L-16 batteries I bought cost $1,749.000, with an option of buying four more before December 31.....should last 5 to 8 years... which is comforting in these unsettled economic times.

Maybe you've read the sentence with describing that I've assembled the solar panels and equipment....as building my own panels, when I should have used the word "Gathered the solar panels and equipment...."

The roof mount Kaneka panels aren't "DIY", they are new, as are the twelve Kyocera 135w panels for a Red Roc tracker array made from the support framework and tracking actuator of a huge 12' old C-band satellite dish.

As long as the equipment is new, the "Principle Residence's" 110v circuits are basically "off grid" using the Outback GVFX3524 inverters. They give me an option of grid-tie if/when I choose to apply to the electric companies, with their guidelines.....

I'm confused about your information of "Nothing..." Take a look at the 2011 guidelines' site for U.S. tax credits:

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index

Down the page, click on "Solar Energy Systems" and come back and expand on your view.

[Sunking]

No, the 8 L-16 batteries I bought cost $1,749.000,

Ok great you now have 15 Kwh of the 60 Kwh you need. You only made a 25% down payment, you need 24 more L-16's to run a 1 ton AC unit for 12 hours per day. Buy the rest and you will be into about $8000 worth like I said.

You can get a credit for the Air Conditioner unit. But the bottom line is you are going to pay 10 to 15 times more going off-grid vs buying from the POCO. OK so you do not believe me. Go ahead and do it and learn your way. It is your money, or I should say was your money.

[BilljustBill]

Ok great you now have 15 Kwh of the 60 Kwh you need. You only made a 25% down payment, you need 24 more L-16's to run a 1 ton AC unit for 12 hours per day. Buy the rest and you will be into about $8000 worth like I said.

You can get a credit for the Air Conditioner unit. But the bottom line is you are going to pay 10 to 15 times more going off-grid vs buying from the POCO. OK so you do not believe me. Go ahead and do it and learn your way. It is your money, or I should say was your money.

Sunking,

I'm not trying to chill the whole home, I was originally just asking what would be a good brand and model for efficiency and dollar for dollar cost to keep a small area comfortable..... The point of having this solar panel system is to cut my useage from the power company, AND to have power if the grid goes down.... for as little a cost as possible. All other watts go to running some 110v circuits during the day, if the batteries are full and the sun is shining.

How do you justify your costs of having your solar array, aren't they in the same boat as my system? How much do you have invested in your system? What does it/can it power of your needs?

[Sunking]

Bill as crazy as it sounds I just design them for clients, mostly telephone companies at cell towers in very remote area, and a few grid tied systems for commercial applications. Personally I do not have much of anything in the way of solar except for the ham shack to run a radio. Where I live power is cheap with no net metering laws so not even grid tied is feasible as it would be like pouring money into a black bottomless pit.

What I am trying to tell you is if you think you are going to save money going off-grid for a few items, it is not going to happen. Quite the opposite is the reality. Battery system should only be used where it is not feasible or possible to bring in commercial power.

Now with that said if you live in a state with Net Metering Laws and decent incentives, a grid tied system may work for you. But any savings will not likely materialize for 10 years or so depending on your location.

I will bow out of this thread for now but allow me to make one more point for you to think about and crunch numbers with. The 8 batteries you have already cost what $1750 right? Those batteries in a properly designed system will yield 3 Kwh of electricity per day use. They need replaced in 5 years. So just in battery cost alone, nothing else, you are paying $1750 / 3 Kwh-day x 1826-days = $0.31/Kwh. Now look at your electric bill and see how much you pay for a Kwh. National average is $0.122/Kwh. Where i live we pay $0.096/Kwh

[BilljustBill]

Bill as crazy as it sounds I just design them for clients, mostly telephone companies at cell towers in very remote area, and a few grid tied systems for commercial applications. Personally I do not have much of anything in the way of solar except for the ham shack to run a radio. Where I live power is cheap with no net metering laws so not even grid tied is feasible as it would be like pouring money into a black bottomless pit.

What I am trying to tell you is if you think you are going to save money going off-grid for a few items, it is not going to happen. Quite the opposite is the reality. Battery system should only be used where it is not feasible or possible to bring in commercial power.

Now with that said if you live in a state with Net Metering Laws and decent incentives, a grid tied system may work for you. But any savings will not likely materialize for 10 years or so depending on your location.

I will bow out of this thread for now but allow me to make one more point for you to think about and crunch numbers with. The 8 batteries you have already cost what $1750 right? Those batteries in a properly designed system will yield 3 Kwh of electricity per day use. They need replaced in 5 years. So just in battery cost alone, nothing else, you are paying $1750 / 3 Kwh-day x 1826-days = $0.31/Kwh. Now look at your electric bill and see how much you pay for a Kwh. National average is $0.122/Kwh. Where i live we pay $0.096/Kwh

Thank you for your input, Sunking. If I had to pay full price for the all the panels, wiring, mounts, and equipment for my solar project, there would be no way the numbers would be in favor of a solar array powering much of anything, including your ham radio shack. I could use the same comparison as to the cost of the radio shed, the electronics, and the pole/tower for the transmitter to say it would be cheaper to call the person (for free on the weekends) than to buy all of that. But there are some things in life that give satifaction just being able to do them. My quest has been to do a solar project in an economic way and power the 110v circuits of my home and lights for the outbuildings.....

You've missed the uniqueness of my conditions and project cost. The first shipment to the refiner contained garage sale found silver jewelry and Sterling tableware. I had under $250 in total cost, but recieved a check back from them for $2,003.00... That easily and completely paid for my batteries.... So this part of the solar payback is factually based on the $250....giving a ROI well under the timeframe of the 5 year battery life. In reality, I even got that back as well as paying the Registered Mail shipping cost, too... With all my work in having 4 garage sales, 3 flea market sales, and 3 shipments of the silver/gold finds sent to the refiner, all together, they have paid for the solar equipment costs...plus the 30% tax credit come April 15th....

My cost for the panels, the FM-80 Outback controllers, the inverters, etc are based on being paid with "Somebody else's money".... I'm out my time and labor and maybe with using all the panels, including 6 used Siemens panels, I've collected a total operational system of 4.5KW. Spread out over the the last 18 months, and paid for as profit dollars were made, my total out of pocket is under $1,500 of my own bank account dollars.... It will be " below zero" with the first phase of 3.5KW of new panels when the Federal 30% tax credit is applied...so the first calendar year of operation of my solar project will be with cash in my pocket...adding to that money by using my own electricity with lower electric bills.... As I originally said in the opening topic, I'm just looking for a good brand and model of a 110v window A/C unit to make use of all the power being made... Somebody else paid for all the rest.

[yyzdnl]

BilljustBill, your logic escapes me. Your obviously savvy you made a $250 investment and with some work turned it into $2,003.00 for an 800% return. Then using the rational "Somebody else's money" your willing take your hard earned cash and put it into a loosing position. You could have taken the money and put it into a savings account for a messily 1% and do better than you can buying electricity for $0.31/KWH

[BilljustBill]

BilljustBill, your logic escapes me. Your obviously savvy you made a $250 investment and with some work turned it into $2,003.00 for an 800% return. Then using the rational "Somebody else's money" your willing take your hard earned cash and put it into a loosing position. You could have taken the money and put it into a savings account for a messily 1% and do better than you can buying electricity for $0.31/KWH

Does that sound so odd, and when funded like I did, does it actually cost "$0.31/KWH? On every solar forum website, there have to be untotaled numbers that have invested in solar that are in the same boat in more or less the same degree... Yes, that money could have been applied to many other things as well as a savings account....but I'm sure you know people who have spent much, much more on lake or mountain property, Alaskan cruises, bass & ski boats, jet skis, motorcycles, a brand new car just driven of the dealer lot, vintage cars, sports cars, jewelry and watches, etc.... Do you judge them in the same light? They do it for enjoyment, entertainment, and in some cases, possibly some degree of investment....

I just chose to spend solar dollars on something with a challenge and some degree of return... in these uncertain times, my solar dollars can give me some peace of mind and self-sufficiency... Let's revisit this decision in a year to see how much gasoline and electricity bills, along with seeing how local, state, national, and global impacts have changed our daily lives.... We'll see which of the examples I quickly listed offer a support in quality, or add a burden to daily living.....and hope the dollar still buys the same amount next June that it does now.

Meanwhile, I'm just asking for information about a suitable supplemental/emergency window air conditioner.... Got any ideas?