My First Solar Powered Boat Project

[TomCat58]

here's a link to a Yahoo Group I am a member of. Most there are Hard Core electric boat builders, not the light weight stuff I like.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/conversations/messages/25129

You might have to register to see this page. It shows pics of a simple rope/pulley steering system that might spark an idea.

Yes that's kind of what I had on my Columbia River 5 day trip. a small rope running up both sides I just pulled on to steer. It works ok its a personal choice I guess it will get the job done.

Tommy

[TomCat58]

Hey TomCat: I kept thinking that a linear actuator for steering was not a great idea but I could not remember why I rejected it. The main reason I did not go this way is that when you need to quickly veer away from something the steering will only react as fast as the linear actuator speed.
Just another 2 cents worth . . .

Yes I understand your thoughts and concerns. A quick release linkage would be a must. I am thinking of my use in my boat on lets say the 5 days and nights Columbia River trip and I jerry rigged a small paraschute rope to the motor handle and ran the rope around both sides of the canopy frame allowing me to make small steering corrections facing forward. It worked ok and I used it a lot on that trip to make small turns and corrections in deep water. If my fish finder gave a warning beep alarm of shallow water I just popped of the Velcro holding the rope on the handle and steered manually to correct the danger. That only happened once on the whole trip.

I was thinking like you too when I picked a slow 1/4 inch movement per second actuator that would be for slow accurate corrections and no good for sudden turns. I would be happy with the short slow corrections.

I guess it all depends on the waters and type of use we use our boats in to decide on if the actuator is a good system or not. For me I know from my long trip and for the next 5-10 day continuation trips down the Mighty Columbia River that the actuator if installed right would be excellent for long straight cruising.

Here is a example of that type of long straight runs I am speaking of: Out of the three video's on this page its the second video down named Solar Canoe Trip Serenity :

https://sites.google.com/site/serenitysolarcanoe/home/short-videos-from-serinity

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts

Tommy

[dudevato]

In my case I simply decided to keep it simple ..........

here's a link to a Yahoo Group I am a member of. Most there are Hard Core electric boat builders, not the light weight stuff I like.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/conversations/messages/25129

You might have to register to see this page. It shows pics of a simple rope/pulley steering system that might spark an idea.

[SolarCanoe]

Hey TomCat: I kept thinking that a linear actuator for steering was not a great idea but I could not remember why I rejected it. The main reason I did not go this way is that when you need to quickly veer away from something the steering will only react as fast as the linear actuator speed. If you select a speed that will be better for fast direction changes, something more like 30mm/sec rather than the 5mm/sec you chose, then normal small direction changes might be a bit jerky and abrupt. If you choose a slower linear actuator like the one you are looking at then you might find the steering very sluggish when you need to make quick course corrections.

I can think of two ways to overcome this issue. The first would involve getting a linear actuator that has an internal pot so that you could use a servo controller. This gets more expensive and complicated but would be the most natural since you could use a fast actuator but the controller would match the speed you used to change the steering pot. The other solution would be to have a quick disconnect that would give under pressure. Either something that would let go completely if you grab the tiller and force it or a connection that is elastic and would allow you to force the tiller, such as a spring or bungee cord.

In my case I simply decided to keep it simple and go with a mechanical steering system. Even with using linear actuators for the motor mount/lift has it's draw backs. The biggest one being that the lift has no give so the motor is rigidly held in place if you hit a rock or other obstacle. However the trolling motor shafts are designed to be flexible and absorb the shock and again I will probably try to make a breakaway linkage between the linear actuator and the motor lift lever so that I don't break something else when I eventually hit bottom.

Just another 2 cents worth . . .

[SolarCanoe]

Quote:Your 2 cents before I make a offer on it is appreciated......

It looks like a good choice.

[TomCat58]

Quote:
I would suggest you go with a 6 or 8 inch stroke and a speed of 27mm/sec that will give you about 45 lb of force. You would need an arm on the trolling motor shaft that is 4-6 inches. If you play around with the arm length you can get a bit more than 90 degrees of rotation.

I measured out my location to mount a mini actuator and how long the arm would be coming off the motor shaft and it would be about 3 inches. I timed the turn of the motor and came up with this unit on ebay 1/4 inch travel per second. its solar panel weather proof and I think I can get it for under $50 if I offer it to the seller. Free shipping from the usa too so not a long wait to get it. Load capacity 1500N- 300 pounds I think ? It comes with 2 mounting brackets also.

Your 2 cents before I make a offer on it is appreciated......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=201027716140&ssPageName=ADME:X:BOCOR:US:1123

[SolarCanoe]

Just One More Thing To Try

OK I can't get the idea of the bicycle headset out of my mind. They are reasonably cheap on eBay and you can get them with sealed bearings. I just have to get my hands on the headset and determine the right size of PVC Tee fitting to use. It will take a couple of weeks for the headset gets here unless I can find one locally cheap. I'll keep you guys posted.

[SolarCanoe]

You can find linear actuators on eBay but I have been finding better prices and getting good service from this seller on Aliexpress.

These LA-AB Model actuators can go up to 45mm/sec. They are splash proof and you can get rubber boots for them.

I would suggest you go with a 6 or 8 inch stroke and a speed of 27mm/sec that will give you about 45 lb of force. You would need an arm on the trolling motor shaft that is 4-6 inches. If you play around with the arm length you can get a bit more than 90 degrees of rotation.

With regard to an automatic center return, I don't have any idea how you would do that. Just be sure you use a momentary on-off-on type switch so that it will stop turning the motor as soon as you let go. You could opt for a joystick type switch, just be sure it is DPDT with a spring return. As I mentioned before waterproof momentary DPDT toggle switches are also common.

[TomCat58]

[QUOTE=SolarCanoe;101712]I have considered using a linear actuator for the steering. You can get fast moving ones that are not as strong, but you don't need that much strength to turn the motor. You could setup a very simple control with an ON-OFF-ON three position toggle switch. You can get them with waterproof boots.

Thank you for taking the time to share. I mostly just swivel my seat around side ways and operate the throttle and steering manually. But when I am trolling "Fishing" or traveling a long distance its a pain to always be sideways making very small steering corrections. I don't need a motor tilt or a remote speed control right now so I guess I will look into the Actuator steering idea and a simple 3 way switch that is much like a power widow switch that would return to center position "off" automatically.

I have a square back canoe with a transom mount so there should be room for a real small actuator. I would want the shaft arm to have a quick disconnect so I could use the steering manually and reconnecting is real fast and simple too. I guess the length of the arm and the speed of the actuator are the key to how fast or slow it would turn the motor and steer it.

Time to do some research on actuators and what speeds they go in and out, power required and water resistant etc. If you can recommend a brand and model of a actuator that might work for me then please do

Thank You
Tommy

[SolarCanoe]

Why not use a actuator to turn the motor one way or the other with a simple in and out attached a arm on the trolling motor shaft ?
Tommy

I have considered using a linear actuator for the steering. You can get fast moving ones that are not as strong, but you don't need that much strength to turn the motor. You could setup a very simple control with an ON-OFF-ON three position toggle switch. You can get them with waterproof boots. Search eBay for "waterproof momentary toggle switch" and you will see lots of examples of this type of switch. The nice thing about the linear actuators is that they have built in limit switches at the ends of their travel so you don't have to worry about that. It would be easy if you only need a total rotation of about 90 degrees. Determining the best speed would be tricky. You might have to take a guess and possibly end up having to buy a faster or slower actuator. At $60 - $100 for an actuator that can get a bit expensive.

An alternative would be a servo system like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7ZmZfxSUNY

You can see it used in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viX6kC9C0Yc

It all just got too complicated for me so I opted for a mechanical solution. In my design the pulley is not really being used as a pulley. The brake cables are separate on each side and attach to the back part of the pulley. This is a modification from the basic bar attached to the shaft with a rope on either side that you pull on. I am using a pulley to get a full 180 degrees of rotation. If you only want 90 degrees the cross bar is easier.

Here is an example of a very simple but effective motor mount that allows you to raise the motor if you pull both ropes at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e45ob4mfBKk

Another simple solution is the one dudevato has implemented. It involves a bar attached to the shaft with a linkage at the end that attaches another bar that runs parallel to the boat up to the driver's sitting area. Here is an example on a kayak:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz27u51-YPs

{ By-the-way, the kayak folks are way ahead of us as far as adding trolling motors to their watercraft. }

The two ropes idea lends itself well to having a steering wheel. Here is a fun example of how that works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBSdB2mgcY0

I should mention that most trolling motor shafts are 1 1/8 inch diameter. Coincidentally the steering tube on bicycles are also 1 1/8 inch. Therefore a bicycle stem would fit on the trolling motor shaft. This would allow you to attach a cheep set of handle bars as your steering crossbar. This also leads me to ponder using a bicycle headset to make a very low friction motor mount.

[TomCat58]

steering systems

Gary: If you look at the first photo, you will see that the tube is attached to the board with two straps. The entire thing is free to pivot in these straps. There is an arm on the other end that is attached to a linear actuator. The linear actuator will swing the motor out of the water.

I am trying to keep the entire mount and lift as compact as possible. I will mount it as close to the center line of the canoe as I can but it will be offset from the center line by a few inches. I need the center clear for the end supports of the canopy. I also have to be far enough back from the end of the canoe to allow the linear actuator and it's support arm to go down into the canoe. Therefore it has to be far enough back to avoid the float chambers.

I normally shy away from electrical items as much as I can. Water just doesn't mix well with most electrical items. BUT as I have not decided on how I want to steer my canoe yet and I am reading your guys post about cable etc. and you stated your actuator is water proof enough for a solar panel then I have to ask a question. Why not use a actuator to turn the motor one way or the other with a simple in and out attached a arm on the trolling motor shaft ?

I don't know much of anything about these actuators so maybe there to slow or two expensive or your looking for a system to do tight turns but I am only needed to maintain a course with simple corrections and slight turns. OK guys educate me on this actuators and if it could work for my needs

Tommy

[SolarCanoe]

Gary: If you look at the first photo, you will see that the tube is attached to the board with two straps. The entire thing is free to pivot in these straps. There is an arm on the other end that is attached to a linear actuator. The linear actuator will swing the motor out of the water.

I am trying to keep the entire mount and lift as compact as possible. I will mount it as close to the center line of the canoe as I can but it will be offset from the center line by a few inches. I need the center clear for the end supports of the canopy. I also have to be far enough back from the end of the canoe to allow the linear actuator and it's support arm to go down into the canoe. Therefore it has to be far enough back to avoid the float chambers.

[dudevato]

and another thing ...........

with your 'wrappings' of cable around that pulley, find the mid way point and hard fasten the cable to the pulley so there is no chance of slippage.

Drill 2 holes in the bottom V of the pulley. I'm thinking 1/8"? Then make your own little 'J' hook or 'U' shaped piece from a small dia. machine screw, so the cradle of the J or U holds the cable and pulls it in tight towards the bottom V of the pulley when you tighten the nut (s) you have on the long end of the 'J' or 'U' piece.

Makes sense to me, but I've had a few beers

[dudevato]

Well, I found out I can blow the pic up larger by clicking on it. I now see you have drilled a small hole for each of your 2 cables. I think you'll find as you approach the end of each of your cables 'travel' you will loose leverage.

This will happen as soon as your 'cable mount hole' moves past either the 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock position. A simple fix would be to move the right hand cable mount another 'half way around the pulley, clockwise. Then the same thing, but opposite for the left hand cable.

Or use one long cable, connected from the right lever, back around the pulley one and a half times, then up to the left lever. Maybe a spring on each of these 2 levers pulling them forward, to keep a bit of tension on the whole show. Now as you push the right lever forward the left lever would pivot rearward.

Can you make any sense out of my hair brained ramblings?

[dudevato]

just as I expected: More nice work!

I've a couple of thoughts I'd like to share Todd.

Is your bicycle cable in contact with your pulley for just 180*? I can't see from the pic. If yes I'd suggest wrapping the cable completely around the pulley once. 360* + 180* This ought to keep things from slipping.

By the looks of your Bench Top mounting it looks like you're going to run this motor off the side of your canoe?

Here's an idea that I had to make for easier/cleaner mounting and ought to make it possible to steer the motor even when it's tilted up, out of the water:

I'm looking at the 'T' directly in front of the aluminum pulley (where your cables attach) What I am thinking is if you replace the Elbow, that is directly in front of this mentioned T, with another 'T', (mount this T perpindicluar to the first T.

Add 2 bushing reducers (ground out so you can pass a length of PVC through both - this 'pass through pipe' will be running parallel with the water. This pipe will be the pivot your motor uses to swing up/down.

This whole show will be mounted at the rear point of your boat. I'd suggest you mount your female cable runs at a distance apart equal to the dia of your pulley. This way you are dealing with just one less bend the cables have to make that would have created just a bit more friction.

Your idea to replace that T with an elbow and run the wires inside is Great. Are you planning on painting all the PVC to match the boat?

Finish up that flooring project so you can get back to Important Stuff

I've worked on my canoe a bit more today. I've gone as far as I can with the steering linkage for now. I need to fab up my removable outrigger supports. I spent an hour on them today and they are turning out Great.

Once they are installed I can go back and mount the bushings that will hold my 13 foot or so length of 1/2" pvc that will run the length of the boat and let anyone steer.

Keep in touch. I was told I might have to 'ring up' a certain number of posts here before I can attach pics to my posts, so I'll make a point of doing just that. Gary