Deionized or Distilled water in nife cells?

[tandrews]

I had been emptying the dehumidifier into those 20l collapsible camping storage containers for later use as source for electrolyte.
My reasoning was that dissolved solids would be lower then a well source. Ya, maybe so, but C02?
A recent well hose failure had me dipping into the stores as pump primer and interim water source.
I discovered that those containers impart some "plastic volatiles" to the water when washing hands camping at home.
While not so scientific, I was unable to "get the soap off" my hands as a result of the storage (direct use from dehmidifer was fine).
Just a point of consideration for storage, but also consideration for dissolved C02.

While I have a pH meter on order, checking ppm dissolved is certainly prudent, but the point of this post is that C02 is much more likely to dissolve in water then 02.
The amount is based on gas concentration, exposure and pressures. Since every drop of a dehumidifier's water is fully exposed, this is very likely a poor source of C02 free water.
This gets beat to death in this article:

http://www.nist.gov/data/PDFfiles/jpcrd427.pdf

I think my best bet is to use filtered well water as it's not had a chance to absorb C02 and likely had carbonates scrubbed by sedimentary filtration.
Good point on ppm check though, a worthy tool for the electrolytists among us. PH and PPM combined tell you what you're starting with but I've now reconsidered my dehumidifier sourcing suggestion as a fail in light of C02 ambient dissolution.

Knowledge is funny.

[russ]

I think my best bet is to use filtered well water as it's not had a chance to absorb C02 and likely had carbonates scrubbed by sedimentary filtration.
Good point on ppm check though, a worthy tool for the electrolytists among us. PH and PPM combined tell you what you're starting with but I've now reconsidered my dehumidifier sourcing suggestion as a fail in light of C02 ambient dissolution.

Knowledge is funny.

I have never tested any water from a dehumidifier but it seems to me it would be rather 'dirty' - you are scrubbing everything from the air into it.

RO water?

[inetdog]

I have never tested any water from a dehumidifier but it seems to me it would be rather 'dirty' - you are scrubbing everything from the air into it.

RO water?

Good point, but possibly this could be corrected just by pouring the water through a mechanical filter (not a Britta type cartridge which may have other elements.) Dissolved stuff is a lot harder to get out than particulates picked up through the air.

[tandrews]

Dirty is relative.
Dusty perhaps, the odd insect even. Nothing a simple filter cannot remove.
It hasn't spent a whole lot of time seeping through mineral laden rock however which is harder to remove 100%.
Gotcha is, it's been exposed about as much as it can be to C02 making it a lousy source candidate.

Um, I dunno what RO refers to - maybe expand acronyms?

Edit: inetdog beat me to it...

[Mike90250]

RO = Reverse Osmosis (membrane filter)
DI = De-Ionized water (resin exchange bed)

[russ]

See the attached URL for a graph comparing different types of water purification - about half way through the doc

http://www.advancedwaterfilters.com/reverse-osmosis-system.html

[tandrews]

So, a small reverse osmosis setup, fed by well water, might actually save money in the form of longer electrolyte life, higher charge efficiencies, and/or longer working LIOH...

Something like:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PORTABLE-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-KIT-FILTERS-OUT-FLUORIDE-1-70-/310402819279?pt=AU_SmallKitchenAppliances&hash=item48457324cf

[russ]

So, a small reverse osmosis setup, fed by well water, might actually save money in the form of longer electrolyte life, higher charge efficiencies, and/or longer working LIOH...

Something like:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PORTABLE-REVE...item48457324cf

Many of the smaller units have a recovery rate (good water delivery vs waste) of a low as 10% - which they never mention.

If water availability is a problem you need to use caution.

[Sunny Solar]

from what I read inthe Ebay link the distributor seems to be claiming about 50% recovery for their small system.

[russ]

from what I read inthe Ebay link the distributor seems to be claiming about 50% recovery for their small system.

Lots of people make a lot of claims but with no instrumentation it isn't easy to show over time. Without complete analysis as well as flow there would be no way to tell what was happening.

I have had a number of stories about the yield thrown at me but the membrane manufacturers say no way.

The link wouldn't open for me. I would suggest caution - too many water treatment companies are hustlers - if you know someone and trust them it is different - at least it would be your buddy screwing you.

[Sunny Solar]

The link is legit and worked for me and the company appears to be an ok Australian business. But some of their claims for some products seem .. HMMMM ??? Im not a water expert but...

[russ]

Their ad contains some facts and some smoke -

1) Any membrane mfg tells you that any sediment going into the membrane is an absolute no no - they are wrong on this point

2)[FONT='Trebuchet MS',sans-serif]Stage 5 - Inline Ion Exchange Resin DI Cartridge every 6-12 months[/FONT]
[FONT='Trebuchet MS',sans-serif]This filter should never, NEVER be used for drinking water, Great for fish but DO NOT DRINK THIS WATER. D.I resins are designed to remove any residual mineral the membrane leaves behind. Membranes deliberately leave minerals in the water to help balance off the aggressive acidic behaviour of RO water.
[/FONT]
The statement is blatant BS

The advertising blurb is written to play on peoples fears about fluoride - the statements about chlorine are bush chemistry - something akin to a witch doctor.

I saw no mention of required minimum inlet pressure of % permeate expected.

Not the type of advertising that would make me want to buy from the party.

[inetdog]

Their ad contains some facts and some smoke -

1) Any membrane mfg tells you that any sediment going into the membrane is an absolute no no - they are wrong on this point

2)[FONT='Trebuchet MS',sans-serif]Stage 5 - Inline Ion Exchange Resin DI Cartridge every 6-12 months[/FONT]
[FONT='Trebuchet MS',sans-serif]This filter should never, NEVER be used for drinking water, Great for fish but DO NOT DRINK THIS WATER. D.I resins are designed to remove any residual mineral the membrane leaves behind. Membranes deliberately leave minerals in the water to help balance off the aggressive acidic behaviour of RO water.
[/FONT]
The statement is blatant BS

The advertising blurb is written to play on peoples fears about fluoride - the statements about chlorine are bush chemistry - something akin to a witch doctor.

I saw no mention of required minimum inlet pressure of % permeate expected.

Not the type of advertising that would make me want to buy from the party.

A legitimate concern, which they appear to be playing on for their own reasons is that ion-exchange water softeners replace the ions of "hardness" minerals like calcium with sodium ions instead. In areas of very hard water, the result could be significant for someone who is on a sodium-restricted diet or is just trying to reduce their sodium consumption. This, and taste, are among the reasons that many recommend not supplying softened water to the refrigerator or other drinking water sources. Before cold water washing became routine, the recommendation was to soften your hot water only.
(The kitchen sink cold water straddles the need for softened and unsoftened water.)

What they carefully ignore is that ion-exchange resins, by definition replace one kind of ion with another.

[russ]

The sodium from a ion exchange unit is of concern only to those with nan ultra low sodium intake restriction.

The recommendations against using softened water for drinking, etc are just part of loony land - with rare medical exceptions.

I had never heard the one about using a softener on hot water only - seems a bit silly considering what you are trying to prevent - scaling happens in all pipes

[inetdog]

seems a bit silly considering what you are trying to prevent - scaling happens in all pipes

Long ago the reason homeowners installed water softeners was to prevent soap scum on their skin and in their hair in the shower and bath and to get their laundry and dishes clean without residue. Before the introduction of detergents containing phosphates, you could not just add more soap to deal with the problem. Reduced scaling in the pipes was not a selling point anybody cared about. Sodium stearate dissolves in water. Calcium stearate does not .

"We were so much older then, we're younger than that now."