Batteries on the way

[Sundetective]

They are low in the mornings . I don't think they are "under charged", many amps are being put into them, and not many being taken out. I finally got the "carbonate test kit" and will have to try it out next weekend. Ran into too many chores this weekend.

If it's just some fine tuning still needed, I'll be OK, if it's a lieing sack of sales pitch, with no basis in reality, then not so rosy.

Mike,

Have you read your Nickel Iron Battery Warranty closely?

Appendix B

15 Year Limited Warranty

BeUtilityFree, Inc warrants both the cells against material and workmanship and battery
capacity.

Material and workmanship warranty:

BeUtilityFree™, Inc. warrants to the original user and is non-transferable and that all
new nickel iron pocket plate cells models will be free from defects in material and or
workmanship (not just being discharged) within the replacement period stated will be
replaced free of charge. for (15) fifteen years (180 months) after placed in service. User
should immediately report any possible defects in writing to BeUtilityFree™, Inc.

Battery capacity warranty:

We warranty the battery to produce a minimum of 80% of its rated battery capacity at a
C20 rate for the first 10 years in service as tested by industry battery testing methods.

Warranty Period Workmanship
Free replacement: 1st 60 months
Pro-rated: 120 months after the 1st 60 months
Warranty inclusions and exclusions
All batteries claimed to be defective must be returned to BeUtilityFree™, or the closest
dealer for evaluation.

During the first year from date of shipment delivery to customers
address we will pay for return shipping, but not shipping to BUF, if cell(s) are found to be
defective.

After first year, customer pays all shipping expenses both ways.

Allow up to
2-4 weeks for examination of batteries that are in question if they are returned to us. No
replacement cells will be sent unless bad cells are received first. No exceptions.

If you
need to send all the cells back to us then send the cells back to us in the original wood
crate that the cells came in. or construct replacement boxes of similar construction.
BeUtilityFree is not responsible for installation, removal of cells, labor costs of removal
and replacement, electrical test or any kind, loss of time, loss of equipment use,
recharging and charging cell(s), and another costs related to be considered as incidental
or consequential damages.

The following conditions must be met or guarantee is NULL and VOID:

1. The batteries are used in a home power system or approved system by
BeUtilityFree™, Inc. engineering department.
2. Battery bank should not be installed in an environment that exceeds 100 F° for
extended periods of time, such as a dark box in the sun.

3. The batteries are handled, stored and installed in accordance with the instructions
shipped with the batteries.

Proper maintenance records should be kept regarding
temperatures; specific gravity, cell voltages, and battery carbonate content on a yearly
basis.

4. Electrolyte level must be maintained at the recommended level at all times. Only
distilled or de-ionized water can be used to replace fluid level. Rainwater, city tap
water, well water or seawater will void warranty.
5. Applies only to original owner and does not cover any battery that must be repaired or
replaced due to misuse, accidents, negligence, tampering, or acts of God.
6. Battery terminals and intercell connectors must be tight to assure no arcing occurs
during heavy charging and discharging of battery.

7. If battery is found to be contaminated with carbonate during a claim then the claim will
not be honored.

It is the client’s responsibility to monitor the electrolyte carbon
content.

9. The replacement electrolyte bought from us be used when periodic renewal electrolyte
as necessary.

10. Cells have to be flushed with distilled water or water approved by us.

11) The operator of the battery bank must keep reasonable records of use and
maintenance.

Failure to monitor watering intervals, discharges and full recharges may
void the warranty.

12) All battery systems installed in renewable energy systems or electrical vehicle
systems must have an Ah meter device installed in accordance with the manufacturers
installation instructions.

All battery Ah meters must be “synchronized” periodically to
match the rated battery capacity. No constant voltage controllers are allowed.

13) The battery must be charged on a properly sized charging system capable of
delivering a minimum of 40% of its rated C5 Ah charge rate. The “charging system” is
the total sum of all charging sources.

14) The total 100% depth of discharge of your battery bank do not exceed 1000 times
total to an end voltage of 1.0 VPC. If cells taken below 1.0 VPC then warranty is void.

Limited warranty does not apply due to the following:

1. Fluid level not maintained in cell(s) either by over or under watering.
2. Damage from shipping to or from the original owner.
3. Freezing of cells due to low specific gravity.
4. Damage from fire or explosions or any other acts of god
5. Addition of any other chemical besides chemicals purchased from BeUtilityFree, Inc
or approved supplier by BeUtilityFree.
6. Water that is not either distilled or de-ionized and over 10 PPM of TDS.
7. Over or undersized sized battery bank as well as improperly sized for the intended
application.
8. Damaged cases from temperature extremes.

9. Improper installation.
10. Bad electrical connections such as lose nuts or wires or improper wire sizes for
application.
11. Corroded, rusty or improper hardware.
12. Breakage caused by dropping cell or sharp blows to cell.

13. Insufficient charging by charging source.

14. Tampering with wording or manufacturing codes the cell or tampering with cell itself
in any way.
15. Cracked, broken, or cracked cell cases not caused by manufacturing defect.
16. Freezing of cells due to low specific gravity.

17. Your warranty does not cover cell replacement caused by loss of battery capacity due
to carbonated electrolyte. If we find this to be the case, we give you the option of us
changing electrolyte with new electrolyte and testing them.

18. Only cells sold in North America
19. Float purchased from another company and used in the cells

The registration form is filled out within (30) thirty days of receiving batteries and
sent to:
Attn: Customer Service
BeUtilityFree™, Inc.

You can also scan and email the filled out form in PDF format to

If the warranty paperwork is NOT filled out and sent in than your cells will
not be covered under the warranty terms.
NO EXCEPTIONS!

How to obtain warranty service:
All returns must be followed by a Return Authorization Number (RAN) issued by
BeUtilityFree™, Inc. in writing to the customer service department. Customer is
responsible for costs and proper packaging of cell(s). All cells must be returned to us
before guarantee is honored. Shipping instructions will be sent with the RAN. Proof of
purchase (invoice) must be presented at time filing for an RAN
If defective during the first year we will replace free of charge including labor, freight
and and parts replaced with one of equal amp hour battery capacity and we will endeavor
to replace with the physical size cell. The second through the fifteen years will be
warranted on a pro-rated basis.
BeUtilityFree, Inc

The pro-ration formula is:
Credit = current purchase price ($XXX) X number of months of service ÷ Warranty
period

Because cell dimension can change from year to year we cannot guarantee that the
replacement cell(s) will be the same size as the cell)s) that you originally bought. Usually
the older the cells are more likely the cell could be a different dimension. The amp hour
cell capacity shall be the same as the original or as close as we can get should the cell AH
capacities not be matched exactly.
Packaging requirements
Package must be packaged according to shipper’s standard practices for the weight of the
cell. Please use proper packing material that will not crush under the weight of the cell.
We suggest bubble wrap as the best packing material.
Limitations of Warranty
BeUtilityFree makes no express warranties with respect to its to its cells sold other than
the limited warranty stated in this warranty
Disclaimer of consequential damages
BeUtilityFree, Inc shall not be responsible for any liability caused by incidental or
consequential damages caused by operation of the nickel iron cells, from the sale of this
product or relating to the use of this product.
Application pertaining to State Laws
This warranty gives the original owner specific legal rights and you may also have other
rights that may vary on a state by state basis.
This area intentionally left blank
BeUtilityFree, Inc

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is another version of the same Warranty but it won't copy for some reason.
I will have to try a desktop that is set-up to deal with tricky stuff.

It has additions like items related to your Ah meter.

"If your battery history setting are deleted or reset then warranty is void".

So be careful with your printed records and don't accidentally reset your Ah meter
or your out of the John Mario D'Angelo
Shrine.

If you get some carbonate problems same deal.
Your out of the Shrine.

Charging Less than 40% of C5 ... well I'll let Sunking tell you.

Stephen over at Zapp Works said that they figured out a way to reverse recent
carbonation and he was telling his customers all about it. Then this year they wrote it out
of their instructions. The sly devils. Changhong Batteries (Your Company) is also
'writing some things out' this year. Old Bill won't do you dat way

Based on some things that John Mario said recently (in writing of course) I think
that I figured out what may have happened to your Ni-Fe Cells.
(Next time.)

Bill Blake

[Sunking]

Mike honestly I was hoping things would have worked out better for you and prove me wrong about NiFe batteries. .

[Sundetective]

Mike honestly I was hoping things would have worked out better for you and prove me wrong about NiFe batteries. .

I feel badly as well but all may not be lost. There may have been a problem with the electrolyte chemicals because Beutilityfree started double shipping chemicals to customers.
For the first time that I know of China (Changhong) is no longer including the chemicals with your
Beutilityfree order as of a recent email from Beutilityfree to a Ni-Fe fanboy and as of John's mouth in our
Survival Monkey forum tango involving John, Brandon Williams and old Bill.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_mss=John%20D'Angelo%20S&tok=LuphWUExouqj6kiv8AtM6A&pq=john%20d'angelo%20beutilityfree&cp=29&gs_id=40&xhr=t&q=John%20D'Angelo%20Survival%20Monkey&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=John+D'Angelo+Survival+Monkey&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=2eb501efc61e67f9&bpcl=35466521&biw=1024&bih=533

Now this makes no sense to me since the chemicals made in China are known to be the cheapest by far

What possible reason is there to start personally messing with the Ni-Fe chemicals again here in the USA when China always handled it inside the crates right to your door?

After the carbonate tests Mike can let me know what he wants to try.
I have a Certified Reagent Grade supplier of the Lithium Hydroxide in hard containers at a very good price
that I will pass on to Mike off list if he needs it.

However that also voids the Nickels Iron Battery Warranty by not buying the electrolyte from
John D'Angelo.

Otherwise I don't wish to push the subject. To me it's almost as bad as a funeral and it bums me out now.

Bill Blake

Mod note - Various items naming people and crimes have been removed - If you are interested just search John D'Angelo beutilityfree.

If complaints are to be made just state a position and drop the topic- this has gone on and on and there is no reason for the site to take any exposure to legal action over the topic. I have no desire to do the research to support a position on the topic.

[russ]

Mike - You might try dealing with the factory - they can check up on problems their distributor has as well as anyone - they should be aware.

The warranty comes from the factory anyway.

[Max0]

Hi every one today i want to say that Batteries involve the flow of electricity from one metal to another. What happens to these metals to cause the batteries to, eventually, stop working?
about us

[Mike90250]

Hi every one today i want to say that Batteries involve the flow of electricity from one metal to another. What happens to these metals to cause the batteries to, eventually, stop working?

the daily trip back and forth makes the atoms tired and the eventually fall to the floor

[inetdog]

Hi every one today i want to say that Batteries involve the flow of electricity from one metal to another. What happens to these metals to cause the batteries to, eventually, stop working?

1. The metals fall off the plates and will not let the electrons take their trip outside the battery through the wires.
2. The surface of the metals gets covered with all sorts of bad stuff that the electrons don't like.
3. The chemicals in the water that carry the electrons on the half of their trip that is inside the battery go away, as does the electrolyte in the case of AGM batteries.
4. The interior of the metals gets filled up / mixed with other nasty stuff which does not stay on the surface, and once again the electrons do not like that.

Those are some reasons for rechargeable batteries.
For non-rechargeable batteries, the chemicals which carry the electrons from one metal to the other get used up in chemical reactions, and there is no more left, even if there are still metals left.

And actually, some types of batteries do not even use metals for one or both of their electrodes. But the principles remain the same.

[Guest]

Factory Warranty?

Mike - You might try dealing with the factory - they can check up on problems their distributor has as well as anyone - they should be aware.

The warranty comes from the factory anyway.

Russ,

Please share with us the details of the "factory" warranty or provide us with a PDF attachment so we can all see what you are talking about. I have never seen a factory warranty from any of the Chinese manufactures, but I have seen and read warranties from BeUtilityFree which has the best warranty of anyone selling nickel iron batteries. BeUtilityFree has also had the most experience in selling China nickel iron cells in the USA. After all they have been importing the cells from China for over 19 years (since 1995). I have read Iron Edison warranty which basically sucks (2 year warranty last I read), regarding Zapp works I have never seen a written warranty from them and on their web site they sate "With proper maintenance a two-year warranty is provided." what ever that means.

Dealing directly with the factory usually gets most people no where because they (the factory) expects the customer to take their questions directly to the company that sold you the cells. I suggest you stay in contact the company you bought the cells from.

Thanks!

[russ]

Beutilityfree - isn't that the party some members are pissed at for blowing BS at them?

Beutilityfree or any other supplier does not carry the guarantee - they will only guarantee what the manufacturer backs them up on - otherwise they are fools.

Your local hardware store does not carry a guarantee - that goes back to GE or Whirlpool or whoever the manufacturer was.

[inetdog]

Beutilityfree - isn't that the party some members are pissed at for blowing BS at them?

Beutilityfree or any other supplier does not carry the guarantee - they will only guarantee what the manufacturer backs them up on - otherwise they are fools.

Your local hardware store does not carry a guarantee - that goes back to GE or Whirlpool or whoever the manufacturer was.

If a supplier gives the customer a written guarantee/warranty with explicit conditions, they may or may not be depending on the manufacturer's warranty to back them up. They might also be earning such an enormous profit that they can afford to do some replacements on their own. Of they may put in such strict conditions that the warranty is worthless. The only way to tell is to read the fine print.
Many manufacturers state in their literature that defective items should be returned directly to them rather than to the store where purchased, but most large stores will still take the product back from you and give you a replacement. Then they either fight it out with the manufacturer or sell the defective unit to the next person who comes along.

[Guest]

What is your problem russ?

Beutilityfree - isn't that the party some members are pissed at for blowing BS at them?

Beutilityfree or any other supplier does not carry the guarantee - they will only guarantee what the manufacturer backs them up on - otherwise they are fools.

Your local hardware store does not carry a guarantee - that goes back to GE or Whirlpool or whoever the manufacturer was.

BeUtilityFree has a track record that no one else can match when it comes to the nickel iron battery sales or knowledge in the USA. Russ that is a simple fact and that is not BS.

All I asked of you and you cannot seem to provde either verbally or in writing, is what is the manufacture's (Changhong) warranty?

I know that the reason why BeUtilityFree continues to give the best warranty in the battery industry (lead acid or otherwise that I am aware of) is becuase they have had the most experinece with the Chinese nickel iron battery. In fact that works to the customers advantage as I see it.Many warranties are worthless and are only as good as the company that gives it. BeUtilityFree has been around longer than any other company selling nickel iron batteries in the USA. Yes, their warranty carries certain stipulations,but the company would be a fool NOT TO have certain simulations otherwise customers would take advantage of the company. To me that is smart, not dumb if a company wants to stay in business.

[Guest]

If a supplier gives the customer a written guarantee/warranty with explicit conditions, they may or may not be depending on the manufacturer's warranty to back them up. They might also be earning such an enormous profit that they can afford to do some replacements on their own. Of they may put in such strict conditions that the warranty is worthless. The only way to tell is to read the fine print.
Many manufacturers state in their literature that defective items should be returned directly to them rather than to the store where purchased, but most large stores will still take the product back from you and give you a replacement. Then they either fight it out with the manufacturer or sell the defective unit to the next person who comes along.

You are 100% correct in your reply to Russ.

Batteries are not like most products in the market. They can be used gently used that will give normally give them maximum life or totally abused shortening their life so therefore have to have a unique warranty as I see it.

[russ]

Tell us why so many people are pissed at beutılityfree then!

You managed to skip over that point in your blather.

That is a poınt to always watch out for - when a party doen't want you to see X they talk about Y real loud and quickly.

[Guest]

Where is the warranty Russ

Tell us why so many people are pissed at beutılityfree then!

You managed to skip over that point in your blather.

That is a poınt to always watch out for - when a party doen't want you to see X they talk about Y real loud and quickly.

I have read this whole thread that begins with "batteries on the way" and I do not see that "people" are "pissed at beutilityfree" but that the person who originally started this thread, Mike, has questions about his nickel iron battery bank. Many people have chimed in with their "advice" that may or may not be good.

Please post a list of all the "people that are pissed at beutiltyfree" and please tell me why they are pissed off? Concrete examples only please with real quotes as to why they are "pissed off" and not just your opinion. I bet I will know that outcome.

You wrote on post #49 the following: "The warranty comes from the factory anyway." I have politely asked you twice to provide this warranty to us either verbally or post a document yet you seem to constantly avoid a concrete answer. Why? For the third time Russ what is the factory warranty? I am sure everyone here would like to know. Hey, Bill Blake do you know what the Changhong factory warranty is since you certainly knew and posted the BeUtilityFree warranty in its entirety. You seem to be a wealth of information.

Seems to me "you skip over that point in your (own) blather" Russ. What is the real problem?

[Sunking]

Please post a list of all the "people that are pissed at beutiltyfree"

It is really easy to do all you have to do is search: Most damning evidence is the owner John D'Angelo was sentenced to two-years prison. He killed a young boy with his products:

Company President Sentenced to Jail for CPSC Violations

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) announced today that John D'Angelo, owner and president of Utility Free Inc., a Colorado-based distributor of alternative energy products, was sentenced to nearly two years in jail for violating two laws enforced by CPSC. Mr. D'Angelo pled guilty to 15 counts of improperly shipping hazardous substances, including a highly corrosive, clear electrolyte solution. In December 1993, 15-year-old Justin Pulliam mistook the solution for water because Mr. D'Angelo had shipped it in a reused plastic one-gallon milk container that lacked appropriate warnings. The teenager drank it and died two weeks later from severe internal injuries.

The Federal Hazardous Substances Act prohibits the shipment of hazardous substances in reused food containers and without proper warning labels that contain safety information. The Poison Prevention Packaging Act requires that certain chemicals be marketed in child-resistant packaging. Mr. D'Angelo violated both laws. His sentence is the longest jail time ever imposed for violations of laws enforced by CPSC.

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