Nickel Iron vs. Lead Acid - Off Grid battery debate

[Mike90250]

Have you read Bottled Lightning? A must-read for Ni-Fe fans!

link ? source ?

[Iron Bran]

Bottled Lightning

link ? source ?

I really like the opening line;

"It is quite possible that the man who has taught us to put up electricity in bottles has accomplished greater things than any other inventor who has yet appeared."

-- The New York Times, June 11, 1881

http://www.amazon.com/Bottled-Lightning-Superbatteries-Electric-Lithium/dp/0809030535/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310701346&sr=1-1

[Offgrid]

Mike.How is you NiFe bank treating you?

Just curious...A battery that lasts so long and can be completely drained with out the ill effects.Sounded nice.So was just wondering how its going and if you miss your FLA's. (Dont even start with me Sunking) ;P

[Mike90250]

They are expen$ive. All that nickel, they may as well be $tainless$teel.
And they are not nearly as dense as the lead acid batteries. takes up about 4x the floor space in the battery room. And higher internal resistance, so more loss, and less surge capacity, so next size up. And a bit less efficient (70% vs Pb 80%) Ouch. So it's basicaly fear of not being able to get any batteries 10 years from now. I'm buying my battery changes NOW, instead of spreading it out over 40 years of replacements (4 sets) of lead acid.

and I now hear they are hung up in customs waiting for inspection. And my vacation time is already scheduled at my company, so I go to the ranch and wait. Plenty of other things to do.

[Iron Bran]

Iron Edison Battery Store

For those looking for Nickel Iron battery prices to include in your calculations, there may be some updated resources online.

[Sunking]

For those looking for Nickel Iron battery prices to include in your calculations, this may be a good resource.

http://ironedison.com/store

You cannot promote your products or web site here.

[Iron Bran]

Pick up battery book?

I really like the opening line;

"It is quite possible that the man who has taught us to put up electricity in bottles has accomplished greater things than any other inventor who has yet appeared."

-- The New York Times, June 11, 1881


http://www.amazon.com/Bottled-Lightn...0701346&sr=1-1

Mike, it sounds like you may have some vacation coming up. Why not pick up a fun battery book??? =)

All the best,
Bran

[Offgrid]

Mike,for sure there are a lot of negatives and please forgive my niave question but for all the money you spending,couldnt you have bought a lifetime of FLA and then some and still have change?

Now dont get me wrong! a friend actually mentioned the topic of NiFe batteries and said we should make our own and it really sounds cool so I am really interested but I have had my time wasted with DIY panels....making your own NiFe batteries just seems like more wasted time and a lot of danger? Would you agree?

[Mike90250]

"hand made" Edison batteries - well, it's getting the materials, perf nickle and steel, and jamming them into jars.... Edison had a machine shop, and a factory to do it. For household size, it's beyond what I was willing to jump into. Pb batteries don't have a good shelf life, but maybe with a nitrogen purge, I could store them. So, I'm my own guinea pig. At least I'm not Dr. Moreau and won't spread hybrids around. (or GMO's)

of course, the attached chart is valuing my time at some $, but I'm not paying myself to water my own batteries. (hey, maybe that's a tax writeoff )

[Sunking]

Just ask Mike how much money he has invested in his system and you decide? $80K sounds about right Mike?

Where I live that buys you 2000 Kwh per month (huge luxury home) for 30 years, but you do not have to buy batteries every 5 years. OK maybe 10 or 20 years with Iron batteries at $10K a pop.

Invest that same money up front and retire in 15 to 20 years a very wealthy person along with your kids.

[Mike90250]

Mike, it sounds like you may have some vacation coming up. Why not pick up a fun battery book??? =)

All the best,
Bran

Thanks Bran, but I'll still have a 3000 gallon water tank to move 1/4 mile and 600 ' up a hill. And fix the irrigation. And stake the house corners. And a thousand other things. I may even get some sleep. But vacation - no. That's just how I categorize it for my employer.

[Offgrid]

lol. Hats off to you Mike.I hate mainstream opinion and Im rooting for your success.In regards to the Nickel...South Africa is one of the major nickel mining countrys so I guess that helps with the pricing since its local.I saw some youtube clips on the making of the NiFe batteries but wouldnt use glass jars,more like getting some large truck battery shells.My concern is the danger.Would this chemistry be more dangerous than a FLA.Ive seen thermal run away in early Lithium and thermal runaway and it scared the living crap out of me.I guess,its a question of making one small scale cell and pushing it to its abuse limits and seeing what happens.

[Offgrid]

@ Sunking

Where I live that buys you 2000 Kwh per month (huge luxury home) for 30 years.

Holy Mackrel!!!!! Considering we use about 1000Kwh a month for a family of 5 and pretty much no power friendly devices. (For now) Thats insane....Sunking,you such a kiljoy but I guess you are practical lol.

I must say this though and its directed at Mike.Solar is our hobby,work,passion.When you love something,it becomes a little more than about the money so I can understand both views here.

[Mike90250]

supposedly, the NiFe chemstry pack is not ultra toxic (much less than a bucket of sulferic acid) and diluted, is a fertilizer.

http://www.qualmega.com/Ni-Fe.html

Suposedly, you can get into a thermal runaway situation in charging, but I don't have the charging capacity to go there.

[Sunking]

I must say this though and its directed at Mike.Solar is our hobby,work,passion.When you love something,it becomes a little more than about the money so I can understand both views here.

I understand that but in TX 2000 Kwh cost $200/month. To replace that with solar battery on a 5 year increment cost $2,200/month. Not much of a hobby watching gas bubbles rise to the top in a battery and stick it to the man so to speak. I can play a lot of golf, fish, golf ,and and make a lot of money to do it again on the savings Not too mention leave my kids a fortune.