House lighting with 18650 batteries

[Sunking]

[QUOTE=fivewin;n330527]Then i dont understand why in most laptops a number of 18650 is used. Also most powerbanks for handphones consist of 18650.

18650 is a size, not a particular Lithium battery. You are making the same mistake 99% of the public makes. you think all lithium batteries are the same type. Theyare are not, there are over a dozen different types, and only two are considered safe being LiFeP04 and Titanate. Laptops use LiCo or Lithium Cobalt which is an extrmeluy unstable battery requiring a lot of monitoring equipment to keep them from catching fire. Cell phones us LiPo Pouch aka coffee bag use a Lithium Cobalt with a Liquid electrolyte that make them very hot an unstable. They take extreme care in monitoring and that is not enough. Watch the news, hundreds of Sansung cell phones have burst into flames just sitting there doing nothing.

You do not have the experience of knowledge to make your own lithium battery pack. Back to 18650 cells is a size of 18 mm diameter, and 650 mm in length. What is inside can be any lithium anode/cathode materials. I bet you cannot name 5 lithium batteries and I already gave you 4 of them. There are over a dozen. . .

[jflorey2]

Then i dont understand why in most laptops a number of 18650 is used.

Because standard LiCo 18650's are cheap, available and high energy density.

If you charge 18650 at 4.2 (4.3 max) volt its safe.

Not even close. If all you care about is max voltage (and you set your max at 4.3) you will very quickly destroy the cell and/or start a fire. Temperature, charge rate, minimum discharge voltage and maximum discharge rate are all important. There's a reason that every li-ion battery out there has a protection circuit, and there's a reason many of them are banned from passenger flights.

[fivewin]

Whats inside the 18650 NOBODY knows unless you open it. All the codes refer to specific types but even you as specialists can be fooled. Or not?? Or you must trust you supplier and even a supplier can be fooled.

Unless you get the battery directly from the factory of panasonic or lg for example nobody knows what you get.

In laptops, powerbanks and products like this fan they use 18650 type of batteries. Its still hard to beleive that its in general dangerous.

Examples of accidents with handphones (burned and/or exploding) can also be shown. Does it mean, dont use hp batteries?? Do you also say i dont come to your house if you have a handphone.

[Sunking]

Let the guy try. Who cares if he burns his house down, it will teach him a lesson.

Look fivewin there is not one true statement you made in your last post. Your last post was pure ignorance.

1. You absolutely know what is inside of a 18650 cells, they are color coded, and voltage is a dead giveaway. So none of that statement is true.

2. Yes Laptops and Power Tools use Lithium batteries. But they are dangerous. You must be a young buck who never pays attention to the world around you. If you had over the last 20 yeas your would know about many of the lithium fires, planes catch on fire just from shipping. Right now Samsung is recalling 2 million phones because 35 of them have burst into flames.

[fivewin]

Sunking,
Ive been reading about these type of batteries. I think this article is the best ive ever read about the danger of such types.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/lithium_ion_safety_concerns

I presume you have read this also.

[fivewin]

You absolutely know what is inside of a 18650 cells, they are color coded, and voltage is a dead giveaway. So none of that statement is true.

I think you are the one who have to learn about "faking" or "fooling". Color codes one can fake it or not?? A used 18650, strip out the sticker and put a new fake sticker around the battery. There are such stickers available online. Fake "samsung" packaging and other brands powerbank casing with printed logo of famous brands with cheap pcb's/charging modules built in ready to order online, etc......

[PNjunction]

Ah, so you know about these issues, yet you put your project in a balsa wood / paneling enclosure?

Now you can't claim simple ignorance. You make an attempt to perform some due-diligence, yet fight us when a glaring safety issue is presented right up front, with straw-man arguments.

Forget the technical issues for now. When a forensic examination of the fire is performed, and the report comes back that a chemical accelerant seemed to be the cause from a decorative gadget in an alcove, you'll be on the hook. Perhaps even more than just financially, but criminally - *especially* because you seeked advice and fought those who know better.

Yeah yeah, reactionary sky-is-falling stuff right? Are you willing to take that chance with your demonstrably unsafe construction methods?

Time to grow up.

[fivewin]

Most of the accidents with li-ion were caused by short circuits. The fan u see above also nearly no "bunker" housing.

Grid tied connection is problably more dangerous than 3.7v li-ion. Use it properly and the chance that something will happen is very very small.

Do you all also advise people to shut the grid connection when leaving the house??

Is there someone here who is living totally off grid incl. Watersupply?? I do.

[fivewin]

PN junction,
Ref your last sentence.

Yes im intending to experiment with such powerbanks (see pict) and charge these even in my living or my bedroom with solar and step down module. Later also experimenting to charge these with diy saltwater battery in the evenings.

[Mike90250]

.....Is there someone here who is living totally off grid incl. Watersupply?? I do.

Drinking water filtered from pond. But I don't mess with charging unknown fleabay batteries

[fivewin]

No drinking water. Pumping from a drilled (pipe)well. Water 3steps filtering suitable for shower and washing clothes/dishes. Pumping with a 12v pump directly connected to a 50wp solar panel only. Sucking 5m deep up to about 3m to a watertank about 5m away from the well.

About unknown or fake batteries usually from China:
This powerbank is a fake samsung. I dont even know whats inside. Very very cheap and to my surprise till now it works well.

Cause i only charge with small capacity panels i think the risk is acceptable. For a diy powerbank the risk is low if the battery management is thoroughly setup.

[Sunking]

Fivewin you are done here.

[PNjunction]

Those of us who do solar power our commercial power banks, check for this phenomenon to make sure that a shadowing effect will recover properly. Some combinations of banks and panels don't recover well.

A few updates: Picked up a Suntactics sCharger5 panel for evaluation. Quite simply, the best quality unit in this arena that I have encountered. Yeah, you'll be paying for that quality. Most importantly, a real-world piece of engineering called "auto retry", which resets any of my banks when they get cranky when a shadow occurs, or locks it down to the lowest rate despite the reapparance of full sun.

Lighting? At some point these cells with their limited cycle life makes them a joke for daily house lighting, and a much safer alternative to the balsa-wood enclosere above is either the Fenix CL25R, or CL30R 18650 driven lanterns. Not the warmest light, but not camping-blue color spectrum either. Still, this would represent a kind of house-camping environment on a permanent basis which is not pleasant long term.

Battery banks? Don't wire up junk if you don't know what you are doing. Just get the largest capacity bank from the likes of a quality manufacturer like Anker. Still want to DIY it yourself with your own cells? (again provided you KNOW what you are doing and how not to be cheated with fakes). Grab a 2,3, or 4 cell battery bank / charger from TOMO. Holds protected, unprotected, flat or button top cells. INDIVIDUAL cell circuitry. Limit charge current to no more than 1A. The Suntactics sCharger-5 works perfectly in this application for that.

Off the shelf stuff, with no amateur diy hackery, and in the case of Suntactics, knowing a bit more about real-world issues of solar charging than most of the other folding-panel makers out there.

[jflorey2]

Then i dont understand why in most laptops a number of 18650 is used.

Because competent designers design battery systems with them.

If you charge 18650 at 4.2 (4.3 max) volt its safe.

You need to do a lot more than that to keep the battery safe.

[PNjunction]

In nearly all cases projects like these are trying to repurpose somebody else's trash, like used laptop pulls and the like, and string them together with kapton tape and kite string.

I'll followup with some pointers in another thread for the younger users who may not even KNOW how they are getting ripped off from a financial and safety standpoint - and what the simplest cure is by merely switching chemistry - and it's NOT lithium!