Battery regeneration for R.E.

[NEOH]

NEOH: Um, I am not here to debate whether my system works or whether you would use the process or the product. There are always early adopters and late adopters, it is all a matter of establishing the value proposition. I cannot do that here, nor am I trying to. I make statements on what I have developed, you can believe it or not. What matters is whether my clients (like BOSCH) are satisfied.
I already have potential clients who have seen the POC interested in volume deliveries so, your concerns are moot to me, no offense.

I'll point out one thing for you. 50% Ah is not end of life for batteries in the tropics or in the developing world. You live in another world altogether. I know my market and you don't. End of story.

Uhm, I do know your market,
it is 3rd world countries like,
India, Africa, Mexico, Latin America, Asia, maybe even some place inside China.

There are not very many people from 3rd world countries on this website,
who are also interested in rejuvenating old / dead lead acid batteries - there might be someone, eventually.

I still don't agree your so-called "Rejuvinated CCA" rating being performed at room temperature.

[SunEagle]

I think you'd run into problems with insurance very quickly. Unless your ideas find support at UL IMO you have no chance of going anywhere near those places you listed: any sane manager would rather spend extra $$ than to risk his ... and use your stuff. How would he look later when sh!t happens and he'd have some explaining to do? Completely dumb, that's how.

IMO while any refurbished battery does not make sense for me to use due to it's uncertain lifespan, I am also a little spoiled being able to afford a new battery whenever I need it.

But if I put myself in the shoes of someone that lives in a third world country or simply just can't afford a new battery, then a refurbished one that has a new but lower Ah rating then the original one that still fits my application and costs much less then a new one, becomes very attractive.

I can see a market for those type of batteries but not in the US or Canada. So while most people here don't think the OP has an opportunity to provide a useful product by reviving "dead" or "used" batteries, I say that if the refurbished battery has been truthfully rated as refurbished, then why not provide that product to those that need batteries but can't afford it or will lose anything critical if it has a shorter life then a new one.

[max2k]

Sadly, for RE, I would never use a bank of "refurbished" batteries, even if they were free. My house IS a mission critical application, and there are times when huge demands are placed on a large bank, prime cells I don't worry about. And I could never recommend it to a client, because I'm the first phone call when the lights go out.

So, while it's interesting for hobby reasons, and maybe for cars where you can call for a tow or jumpstart, RE is off my table.

recent tow over about 3 miles distance (dead alternator) cost me $150 so I'd not take my chances even with car battery. Besides the tow often has replacement battery in case of CAA and alike. Car with dead alternator and automatic transmission on fresh battery makes about 15 miles during day so when the light comes up you're not going too far .

[Mike90250]

Sadly, for RE, I would never use a bank of "refurbished" batteries, even if they were free. My house IS a mission critical application, and there are times when huge demands are placed on a large bank, prime cells I don't worry about. And I could never recommend it to a client, because I'm the first phone call when the lights go out.

So, while it's interesting for hobby reasons, and maybe for cars where you can call for a tow or jumpstart, RE is off my table.

[max2k]

Well the tech involved does not usually result in 100% OEM rating although that has happened about 3% of the time, it produces results which can be repurposed and therefore become renewable goods in another form. For instance, while a cell tower storage array is mission critical and should not 'try' out regen. until a lot of case study is in place. A deepcycle cell storage battery that has been regen'd can find a good home in someone's personal PC UPS system or storage backup for fish tank power etc.

Similarly, regenerating a truck battery can produce a good SUV battery and then an SUV battery can produce a good compact car battery. So it's a series of renewed lives for the battery that's not necessarily the OEM purpose, but the battery 'fits' its new application. Every time a new lease on battery life is created, it removes the carbon footprint and $$ costs of collection, transport, resmelting and remaking a new one. The critical item here is the proper respecification of the battery so its new enduser is satisfied.

Then we have the case of the local Fire station and ambulance services not 'knowing' when a battery might fail forcing very early battery replacement to ensure 100% vehicle availability. These are 8D class units and are very costly which are being dumped, so to speak .My solution with the exercise function is to provide the onsite service for evaluating such a battery while simultaneously desulphating it. Not exactly regeneration in this case, but a valuable automated service nonetheless, that can report via Wifi on every battery processed for documentation and battery lifetime maintenance.

I think you'd run into problems with insurance very quickly. Unless your ideas find support at UL IMO you have no chance of going anywhere near those places you listed: any sane manager would rather spend extra $$ than to risk his ... and use your stuff. How would he look later when sh!t happens and he'd have some explaining to do? Completely dumb, that's how.

[max2k]

The paper on the battery alloys from Mr Clark was interesting but honestly nothing especially new to me. I found it could use a few diagrams and a nod to alloying elements which provide plate rigidity and a discussion on the effects of Antimony migration.

Here's a tip for batteries which develop a leaking seal (usually on the +ve post). Clean it well with a brass or steel brush, then de natured alcohol for oil and dust removal. Wrap the post with electrical tape leaving 1 or 2 mm exposed at the base and spray paint with clear all weather enamel or lacquer (from a can). Works every time.

that advice is certainly from the world where car batteries are expensive but the cars they're in - not so or they develop such leaks much more often. I haven't seen leaky post since that time I was trying this desulfation ideas many moons ago. Nowadays I'd simply replace the battery and forget about it- much cheaper in the long run as probability of the leak is low around here. I saw electrically leaking cells but not seals - still replaced the battery.

[AncelB]

The paper on the battery alloys from Mr Clark was interesting but honestly nothing especially new to me. I found it could use a few diagrams and a nod to alloying elements which provide plate rigidity and a discussion on the effects of Antimony migration.

Here's a tip for batteries which develop a leaking seal (usually on the +ve post). Clean it well with a brass or steel brush, then de natured alcohol for oil and dust removal. Wrap the post with electrical tape leaving 1 or 2 mm exposed at the base and spray paint with clear all weather enamel or lacquer (from a can). Works every time.

[AncelB]

Well the tech involved does not usually result in 100% OEM rating although that has happened about 3% of the time, it produces results which can be repurposed and therefore become renewable goods in another form. For instance, while a cell tower storage array is mission critical and should not 'try' out regen. until a lot of case study is in place. A deepcycle cell storage battery that has been regen'd can find a good home in someone's personal PC UPS system or storage backup for fish tank power etc.

Similarly, regenerating a truck battery can produce a good SUV battery and then an SUV battery can produce a good compact car battery. So it's a series of renewed lives for the battery that's not necessarily the OEM purpose, but the battery 'fits' its new application. Every time a new lease on battery life is created, it removes the carbon footprint and $$ costs of collection, transport, resmelting and remaking a new one. The critical item here is the proper respecification of the battery so its new enduser is satisfied.

Then we have the case of the local Fire station and ambulance services not 'knowing' when a battery might fail forcing very early battery replacement to ensure 100% vehicle availability. These are 8D class units and are very costly which are being dumped, so to speak .My solution with the exercise function is to provide the onsite service for evaluating such a battery while simultaneously desulphating it. Not exactly regeneration in this case, but a valuable automated service nonetheless, that can report via Wifi on every battery processed for documentation and battery lifetime maintenance.

[Sunking]

Sunking : Sunking appears to be a battery brand, if there's an afilliation with that brand, I would understand why a battery regenerator isn't a good thing from your perspective.

Nope just an equal opportunity offender. I have worked with every major battery manufacture for 40 years in the Telecom sector. Sat on IEEE battery committee for 10 years and NEC for 9 years. From 1990 to 203 was the largest customer of Exide, DEKA, and C&D. I am partial to both Trojan and Rolls because they make the best Consumer Grade batteries. RE folks could not afford Exide or C&D as those are Industrial grade. Bu tif you were to ask me what I think the best RE battery money can buy is Trojan Industrial Line Up. Few can afford it.

As for Solar, have done a around 200 to 300 sites for the Telecom sector at cell towers in remote areas from TX to CA.

[SunEagle]

While I am still a little skeptical I also have an open mind concerning new technology or a better mouse trap.

I would invite the OP to hang around and provide any information that may help the skeptical bunch of us understand your technology a little better.

Your biggest skeptic is SunKing who is not affiliated with any battery manufacturer but instead probably has Lead Acid in his blood from all of the hands on experience as a PE concerning battery systems and the National Electric Code. Convince him and others may follow.

I also would like some input from Bosch or a name brand company once your technology has been commercially launched.

[max2k]

Because I like DIY and climate change concerns me.

but not global warming anymore?

So I thought an RE community would appreciate the opportunity to make RE even more sustainable. It's not only about $$$, did you join the forum for $$?

That was one of the very important reasons- reading this board before even joining I found members here (SK, JPM, sensij, too long to count) help other members to save big money by sharing their multi- year experiences and just sober approach to RE. It might sound harsh at times but once you make effort to understand what was said it's quite valuable and what's important- realistic.

Combined they probably seen all ideas there to be seen so if you have something 'challenging' you need to work through this 'tough crowd'. If it worth a dime it will pass if not- sorry. Consider this as peer review for free .

[AncelB]

It seems overall that the project I linked to is not of value to the community here and I really don't have the time to argue it's viability with members who seem unusually aggressive to an open source posting. The last time I had such an encounter it turned out the guy was selling a chemical 'vitamin' rejuvenator and needed to debunk anything that challenged that approach.

I'll wait a couple of days, and if the noise continues I'll just leave the forum to engage with others who have a real interest in the tech.

Sunking : Sunking appears to be a battery brand, if there's an afilliation with that brand, I would understand why a battery regenerator isn't a good thing from your perspective.

[AncelB]

If company like Bosch was interested in your products you'd be busy talking to them and making money. Why so much interest in this niche community that lacks pretty much anything useful to you? I vote to close this thread as it doesn't seem anything useful coming out of it any time soon.

Because I like DIY and climate change concerns me. So I thought an RE community would appreciate the opportunity to make RE even more sustainable. It's not only about $$$, did you join the forum for $$?

[AncelB]

Should not be difficult at all. Cannot happen, at least not to any usable capacity. I sat on IEEE battery committee for 10 years. We blew every desulfator that has came along out of the water. Anyone claiming a lead calcium battery as deep cycle is full of chit.

Deep cycles will be either Lead Antimony, pure lead, lead selenium, and lead tin. Here is a White Paper published by a friend of mine, Steve Clark at Batcon. It will walk you through the alloys.

You need to understand that I am dealing in statistical numbers of batteries. A lot of 'failed' batteries in the 'junkyard' are not dead, they are mishandled in some way. 20% to 30% fall in this category. I have established the value proposition of the regeneration based on this.What you have seen before is of little consequence when new products challenge historical mindsets.

[Sunking]

If company like Bosch was interested in your products you'd be busy talking to them and making money. Why so much interest in this niche community that lacks pretty much anything useful to you? I vote to close this thread as it doesn't seem anything useful coming out of it any time soon.

Because it is DIY which means dunno-chit and easy to fool.

I would not worry much about this guy, I sicked the Mods on him. So he is being watched, and should be gone before to much longer.

Lead Calcium Deep Cycle. Now that is some funny chit, I do not care who you are. It means your username should be Ben Dover or DunnoChit.