Battery regeneration for R.E.

[AncelB]

Hi all:
In case you're DIY inclined, here's a project that has some value. I was able to recover a 12V, 100AH photovoltaic Caterpillar battery (sitting @ 3V for many years) based on it. It is wholly my design which I am open sourcing.

https://hackaday.io/project/25741-desulfator-engine-for-climate-change-mitigation

[max2k]

Hi all:
In case you're DIY inclined, here's a project that has some value. I was able to recover a 12V, 100AH photovoltaic Caterpillar battery (sitting @ 3V for many years) based on it. It is wholly my design which I am open sourcing.

https://hackaday.io/project/25741-de...nge-mitigation

What is applicability of the project? I mean say there's 5 year old RE battery bank which lost 80% of its capacity. Do you have any stats restoring capacity for Deep Cycle old batteries? The project page doesn't say much and it sounds like suggestion for one possible application of the pulser without any backing data.

[Sunking]

Hi all:
In case you're DIY inclined, here's a project that has some value. I was able to recover a 12V, 100AH photovoltaic Caterpillar battery (sitting @ 3V for many years) based on it. It is wholly my design which I am open sourcing.

https://hackaday.io/project/25741-de...nge-mitigation

No such thing as a Caterpillar photovoltaic battery. It is a dang SLI battery for a diesel engine bulldozer. Its a hoax.

[AncelB]

https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/batteries/premium-high-output/175-4360

Caterpillar 100Ah deep cycle.

[Sunking]

https://parts.cat.com/en/catcorp/bat...utput/175-4360Caterpillar 100Ah deep cycle.

Yeah like I said a SLI Cranking Battery. Look at the Equipment Type.

[AncelB]

Deep cycle is not SLI. If you think so then I have nothing else to add.

[SunEagle]

Deep cycle is not SLI. If you think so then I have nothing else to add.

That is a starting battery that can be deeply discharge even once an a while. It will not last long (even if new) as a daily deep cycle battery for RE.

[AncelB]

Deep cycle batteries can be used as SLI not the converse. An SLI cannot be categorized as a deep cycle. A trojan T105 deep cycle has an impedance of about 4 milliohms (I measured 8 of them) .Ergo they have a CCA rating of 800 or so. If you need to crank a 12V starter with 2 of them you'd get 400CCA .

Industrial and agricultural use does not preclude night lighting or running 12V sump pumps etc. An SLI will not stand such service. Nor will an SLI (pasted plate) stand high vibration service, it will shed or develop cracks in the paste grid and fail. Industrial batteries for high vibration service require non pasted plates of ductile lead, which makes them deep cycle capable. The lead plate surface will have been reformed into tribasic or tetrabasic oxide for improved performance.

Anyway I didn't post here to argue which battery is good for RE or not. I posted something open source that could benefit lead acid storage users, if group members want to ignore it, that is fine.

I will say this much. The design is an extract that has been cited as an example of innovation by the University of Applied Scienes (Johanneum, Austria) and awarded by the IPICA-Project.EU along with other regional awards. It is the subject of another university level case study right now to be published in about 6 months.

I chose to share it here because I thought it might be useful to the community.

[SunEagle]

Deep cycle batteries can be used as SLI not the converse. An SLI cannot be categorized as a deep cycle. A trojan T105 deep cycle has an impedance of about 4 milliohms (I measured 8 of them) .Ergo they have a CCA rating of 800 or so. If you need to crank a 12V starter with 2 of them you'd get 400CCA .

Industrial and agricultural use does not preclude night lighting or running 12V sump pumps etc. An SLI will not stand such service. Nor will an SLI (pasted plate) stand high vibration service, it will shed or develop cracks in the paste grid and fail. Industrial batteries for high vibration service require non pasted plates of ductile lead, which makes them deep cycle capable. The lead plate surface will have been reformed into tribasic or tetrabasic oxide for improved performance.

Anyway I didn't post here to argue which battery is good for RE or not. I posted something open source that could benefit lead acid storage users, if group members want to ignore it, that is fine.

I will say this much. The design is an extract that has been cited as an example of innovation by the University of Applied Scienes (Johanneum, Austria) and awarded by the IPICA-Project.EU along with other regional awards. It is the subject of another university level case study right now to be published in about 6 months.

I chose to share it here because I thought it might be useful to the community.

And I thank you for sharing this information. What I try to make sure is that anything posted is not a form of advertisement or just Bull.

We want to keep our members informed but not led down a path that ends up costing them a lot of money or putting them into an unsafe position.

Others have come here and made claims concerning anything from dead battery revival to perpetual motion machines. We have to at least make sure our members are not being fooled.

[AncelB]

Perhaps when the 100% automated commercial units are available I could send you one to evaluate if you're in the tropical zone. The website is being built and I do have EXCEL log sheets (tracking voltages, currents, times, Spec gravity, Ah ratings, CCA improvements) of (mainly automotive) battery recoveries over the last few years when I was developing the protocols to optimize regeneration. The value of the system is apparent in the tropics where sulphation happens quickly. Temperate zones are not sulphation prone.

The complete units do 4 things:
1) Regenerate & re rate (Ah,CCA), for failed batteries, providing early rejection and identification of critical failures.
2) Exercise & re rate (Ah,CCA), useful for storage batteries and marine applications.
3) Charge & rerate (CCA), if you just need a pulse charged battery that desulfates on the go.
4) Float/maintenance charge up to 2 12V batteries which are also used as battery backup if mains go down.

Multiple safety interlocks, self diagnostics with onscreen reporting and failsafe shutdown upon error detection.

They also sequence 2 batteries in Tandem (thus up to 4 batteries can be connected at once incl. the float charging batteries) for any combination of operation or battery type so as to permit minimal user attention and 24/7 operations. Fully IoT compliant with datalogs of all battery processes to provide for machine learning and improved outcomes. Remote shutdown and internet monitoring.
BTW, the pulses are up to 1000A as this is commercial grade design. The unit size is a 1' cube, about 10lbs.

[max2k]

Perhaps when the 100% automated commercial units are available I could send you one to evaluate if you're in the tropical zone. The website is being built and I do have EXCEL log sheets (tracking voltages, currents, times, Spec gravity, Ah ratings, CCA improvements) of (mainly automotive) battery recoveries over the last few years when I was developing the protocols to optimize regeneration. The value of the system is apparent in the tropics where sulphation happens quickly. Temperate zones are not sulphation prone.

The complete units do 4 things:
1) Regenerate & re rate (Ah,CCA), for failed batteries, providing early rejection and identification of critical failures.
2) Exercise & re rate (Ah,CCA), useful for storage batteries and marine applications.
3) Charge & rerate (CCA), if you just need a pulse charged battery that desulfates on the go.
4) Float/maintenance charge up to 2 12V batteries which are also used as battery backup if mains go down.

Multiple safety interlocks, self diagnostics with onscreen reporting and failsafe shutdown upon error detection.

They also sequence 2 batteries in Tandem (thus up to 4 batteries can be connected at once incl. the float charging batteries) for any combination of operation or battery type so as to permit minimal user attention and 24/7 operations. Fully IoT compliant with datalogs of all battery processes to provide for machine learning and improved outcomes. Remote shutdown and internet monitoring.
BTW, the pulses are up to 1000A as this is commercial grade design. The unit size is a 1' cube, about 10lbs.

there should be 0 problem sharing those excels here- they don't contain any know-how, just logged values.

How old were those recovered batteries? I'll be honest, my doubts are coming from personal experience. I tried to 'recover' SLI batteries at some point in my career and it was complete failure for very simple reason- depending on design 99% of the failed batteries were not recoverable by any external circuitry as their electrode grids broke off their cell's buss bars after 6 years in service. The remaining 1 % were simply maintenance mistakes which cannot serve as sustainable 'target market'. All batteries in my case came off light weight cars (sedans/suvs) hence inconsistency in maintenance and even then owners were not that stupid.

[max2k]

Deep cycle batteries can be used as SLI not the converse. An SLI cannot be categorized as a deep cycle. A trojan T105 deep cycle has an impedance of about 4 milliohms (I measured 8 of them) .Ergo they have a CCA rating of 800 or so. If you need to crank a 12V starter with 2 of them you'd get 400CCA .

Industrial and agricultural use does not preclude night lighting or running 12V sump pumps etc. An SLI will not stand such service. Nor will an SLI (pasted plate) stand high vibration service, it will shed or develop cracks in the paste grid and fail. Industrial batteries for high vibration service require non pasted plates of ductile lead, which makes them deep cycle capable. The lead plate surface will have been reformed into tribasic or tetrabasic oxide for improved performance.

Anyway I didn't post here to argue which battery is good for RE or not. I posted something open source that could benefit lead acid storage users, if group members want to ignore it, that is fine.

I will say this much. The design is an extract that has been cited as an example of innovation by the University of Applied Scienes (Johanneum, Austria) and awarded by the IPICA-Project.EU along with other regional awards. It is the subject of another university level case study right now to be published in about 6 months.

I chose to share it here because I thought it might be useful to the community.

This makes me question your motives, sorry- I don't think anyone having invested in some commercial technology would be sharing it on public forum before recovering money spent on R&D and then some. It sounds you're a good sales man for your research but I'm not exactly sure how is it relevant to this forum. If you claim you developed some device which can recover old deep cycle batteries and can send one of them for evaluation then yes, you might get some attention otherwise I doubt anyone will be spending their time for very questionable outcome. So far we haven;t seen anything of substance, just marketing material.

[SunEagle]

But there is always the first time someone comes up with a usable product. So some type of battery rejuvenation device could be useful as long as it isn't expensive to purchase.

While I do not live in a tropical zone (although some people think Florida is) I appreciate the offer to test a model but will decline.

Just please don't offer that product with any strings attached like a one time shipping and handling charge. That is a sure sign of someone trying to get money for nothing.

[max2k]

But there is always the first time someone comes up with a usable product. So some type of battery rejuvenation device could be useful as long as it isn't expensive to purchase.

While I do not live in a tropical zone (although some people think Florida is) I appreciate the offer to test a model but will decline.

Just please don't offer that product with any strings attached like a one time shipping and handling charge. That is a sure sign of someone trying to get money for nothing.

I'm just having difficulties to understand how this product can fix old failed SLI with fallen off electrodes because this is how they usually die. Whatever 'invention' still needs to pass some basic sanity check threshold and so far i don't see that here. If those failed SLI from the tropics failed after 1 year then yes, something might be recoverable but members here maintain their banks much better and 1 year failure would reasonably make them look for problems with their systems, not a remedy.

[NEOH]

Perhaps when the 100% automated commercial units are available I could send you one to evaluate if you're in the tropical zone. The website is being built and I do have EXCEL log sheets (tracking voltages, currents, times, Spec gravity, Ah ratings, CCA improvements) of (mainly automotive) battery recoveries over the last few years when I was developing the protocols to optimize regeneration. The value of the system is apparent in the tropics where sulphation happens quickly. Temperate zones are not sulphation prone.

The complete units do 4 things:
1) Regenerate & re rate (Ah,CCA), for failed batteries, providing early rejection and identification of critical failures.
2) Exercise & re rate (Ah,CCA), useful for storage batteries and marine applications.
3) Charge & rerate (CCA), if you just need a pulse charged battery that desulfates on the go.
4) Float/maintenance charge up to 2 12V batteries which are also used as battery backup if mains go down.

Q1) Exactly what is your testing procedure to "re-rate" CCA - Cold Cranking Amps?
Q2) Exactly what is your testing procedure to "re-rate" AH's ?

Battery Temperature = ?
Starting Voltage = ?
Load Amp = ?
Ending Voltage = ?
Run Time in HH:MM = ?


You wrote,
"... Temperate zones are not sulphation prone. ..."

Lead Acid Batteries that are in the Temperate Zones and in a Partial State of Charge, are also prone to sulfation.