Battery storage shed

[dalepres]

I am considering my first battery/solar backup system for my home. For emergency use, I need to run a few critical systems such as refrigerator, TV, Internet, security, and CCTV systems. I don't really have room anywhere in the house for battery or inverter storage.

What are the requirements for battery and electronics (inverter, chargers, etc.) storage - as in installation and actually operating, not just physical storage? Could they be stored in an unconditioned, dedicated, shed? I'm considering a wood framing shed on a slab between the planned solar array and the house. I'm in Oklahoma where outdoor summer temps can reach 110 and winter temps as low as -20 degrees rarely but 0 to -5 almost every winter.

Any tips, guidelines, links, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

[solar pete]

I think you are on the right track having the batteries and chargers/inverters in their own shed, it's easy for us here in OZ as we dont have the really cold winters. Some locals might chime in with their experiences.

[Mike90250]

Are batteries (that need water and 5-8 year replacement cycle) the route you want to go? Or a small generator with LP or diesel fuel ?
If you are "prepping" for the big event, we just want you to understand that the batteries age and start going bad when they are filled at the factory, If they just sit for 5 years on float, they may last you 10 years. Daily cycles, maybe up to 5 years of life. Oversized and well cared for 10-15 years (HUP solar) But they are not cheap. Solar is not cheap. A week or 2 of yearly outage, generator w/good fuel is the ticket. But if you are getting outages for a couple days every month, then solar and batteries start to look better and more affordable.

[dalepres]

Are batteries (that need water and 5-8 year replacement cycle) the route you want to go? Or a small generator with LP or diesel fuel ?
If you are "prepping" for the big event, we just want you to understand that the batteries age and start going bad when they are filled at the factory, If they just sit for 5 years on float, they may last you 10 years. Daily cycles, maybe up to 5 years of life. Oversized and well cared for 10-15 years (HUP solar) But they are not cheap. Solar is not cheap. A week or 2 of yearly outage, generator w/good fuel is the ticket. But if you are getting outages for a couple days every month, then solar and batteries start to look better and more affordable.

A generator is a single-point of failure - and a mechanical one at that. Plus we're not always at home and I'd like the automatic backup capabilities of an inverter compared to a delayed start, even if automatic, generator. I did put in a Siemens gen-ready panel and a generator this past year and use that for important but less-critical circuits, like freezer, primary refrigerator, general appliances, but I want the additional battery backup for the most critical devices, including medical equipment, security systems, and the refrigerator where I keep my wife's insulin.

When I worked in the communications industry I did solar and battery backup systems for radio communications towers and for central office equipment. In CO equipment, the batteries and equipment always went into air-conditioned space. In the tower systems I did, they were generally mountain top above 10,000 feet. I don't remember ever thinking about conditioned space but, in the Oklahoma heat, I'm more concerned. Looking at battery temperature specs, it seems that I should consider adding a swamp cooler or even a PTAC to the battery shed (with insulation, of course). For the inverter/charger, it doesn't seem as critical if I manage the load.

I'm hoping to hear what others have done to build battery/equipment storage and how they've dealt with temperature.

[PNPmacnab]

Here is mine while still under construction. Only 4X6 foot, but has two windows and a skylight, sits 8 inches off the ground with buried wiring to the house. Exterior is cement board, floor plastic decking and I later insulated closed cell foam from solar panel shipping. Cost multiples more to build than the stuff I put in there. Note this is also the source of hot water. The door is actually from a 1900's amusement park. Wife likes how it looks.

[SunEagle]

A generator is a single-point of failure - and a mechanical one at that. Plus we're not always at home and I'd like the automatic backup capabilities of an inverter compared to a delayed start, even if automatic, generator. I did put in a Siemens gen-ready panel and a generator this past year and use that for important but less-critical circuits, like freezer, primary refrigerator, general appliances, but I want the additional battery backup for the most critical devices, including medical equipment, security systems, and the refrigerator where I keep my wife's insulin.

When I worked in the communications industry I did solar and battery backup systems for radio communications towers and for central office equipment. In CO equipment, the batteries and equipment always went into air-conditioned space. In the tower systems I did, they were generally mountain top above 10,000 feet. I don't remember ever thinking about conditioned space but, in the Oklahoma heat, I'm more concerned. Looking at battery temperature specs, it seems that I should consider adding a swamp cooler or even a PTAC to the battery shed (with insulation, of course). For the inverter/charger, it doesn't seem as critical if I manage the load.

I'm hoping to hear what others have done to build battery/equipment storage and how they've dealt with temperature.

I would suggest you get a better handle of the watt hour usage of your critical equipment so you can better size your battery system.

Also once you add in any type of temperature conditioning equipment that would be more load on your battery you include a big variable due to the changes in the weather. Best to stick to constants or you will probably under-size your system.

[jflorey2]

A generator is a single-point of failure - and a mechanical one at that. Plus we're not always at home and I'd like the automatic backup capabilities of an inverter compared to a delayed start, even if automatic, generator.

Batteries are also a single point of failure - and a chemical one at that. You can maintain a generator such that it lasts almost forever; that's not really the case with batteries.

If you need refrigeration backup for critical medications I'd suggest a vaccine refrigerator. They contain eutetic materials that will keep things cold for several days without power; they are designed for just this use. And are FAR more reliable than either generator or battery.

If you want backup for (small) critical electronics, off-the-shelf UPSes are cheap, easy to replace and easy to maintain. They will "bridge the gap" between grid and generator power for you.

Looking at battery temperature specs, it seems that I should consider adding a swamp cooler or even a PTAC to the battery shed (with insulation, of course).

I wouldn't recommend a swamp cooler, as adding humidity will not do the terminals any good. For an AC, that's a lot of power to burn just to keep batteries cool.

As Mike mentioned, if you are seeing multi-hour outages several times a month, then a battery+solar hybrid system might make sense. But for the occasional outage, it's a lot of money for very little benefit.

[Sunking]

Dale do not listen to any of these kind folks. Even the two pros telling you what to consider. They are just full of facts that do not jive with your POV. You just need to do this as fast as possible and spend as much money as your bank will loan you and your family will give you.

For what you will spend on batteries alone for a small system to do what you want (almost nothing) you get something far less reliable than a whole house generator.You want nothing to do with a Whole House generator that can run everything in your house inclucing Air Conditioning, domestic hot water, cooking and everything like in you rhome like nothing happen for less money than you will spend on batteries. The really fun part you are going to love is those batteries that cost more than a generator, you get to replace every 5 years if you use them or not. What is not to like about that?

So jump in before you understand what you are asking for and doing. It will be a great learning experience for you. You will love it, so do not listen to anyone here. All they will do is just tell you the truth and facts to make an informed decision. Who wants that BS in a PC world? Listen to what PNP is telling you, he is a non expert who does not know WTF he is talking about.

Have a great day and Happy New Year.

.

[dennis461]

I'm hoping to hear what others have done to build battery/equipment storage and how they've dealt with temperature.

I worked at a Nuclear power plant with mission critical batteries in an outdoor concrete block structure.
These were for process monitoring and reporting not critical for nuclear safety.
The structure had a heater hanging from the ceiling and no chiller (an exhaust fan was temperature controlled to remove summer heat).

The HVAC equipment was not battery powered (your's would also not be battery supplied).
At the nuclear plant, the heater broke and they took four years to replace it.
The batteries survived temperature swings, but we did have to change them out on an average of 6 years, age related problems.
Replacement interval will be generally the same for lead-acid.

Is your planned battery room hurricane proof?

[dalepres]

Wow. I just asked for advice on a shed but you've all convinced me that I was nuts to think I wanted solar and, by simply asking, I have proven I don't know enough to know what it is I want or need. I don't know what I was thinking.

[solar pete]

Well you have come to a good place to learn, the forum of few illusions

[Sunking]

Dale do not get your feathers ruffled. You can get what you want for a lot less money. Does that make you want to know more or not? I can walk you through the process and if you can give me enough details, answers, Tell you exactly what you need. What I can tell you right now is you have no need for SOLAR and you can do what you want for 1/3 to 1/2 of what it would cost you with solar. Depends on a few factors like how long you want your gizmos stuff to operate without commercial power. You are an OKIE where they practically give power away from OG&E or PSO. I am an OKIE 1/2 breed Injun and they call me FBI (eefin Bid Indian) who worked for PSO first 9 years of my career as an injuneer. I learned how to spell in Tulsa and a OSU Cow Poker.

If you want go over to AZ Wind and Sun Forum. They will fix you up with solar option and sell it to you right away.

Ball is in your court.