Panasonic have a new Offering

[solar pete]

Hi All,

Panasonic have recently announced this new 8kWh battery and I wanted to put it out to the experts. They have only just announced a trial in Canberra (in Australia) so I dont think we will be able to get our hands on them for a while. I dont know the costing for the units (looks like a 3 piece set) just yet but will look to get that info asap. Iam keen to investigate this system as we might want to start selling it (if we can) cheers

http://www.panasonic.com/content/dam/Panasonic/support_manual/residential-storage-battery-system/English/Panasonic%20Residential%20Storage%20Battery%20System%20Brochure.pdf

http://www.panasonic.com/au/business/energy-solutions/residential-storage-battery-system/lj-sk84a.html

[Sunking]

I do not get the point of it. Why would anyone want a battery to use at night when you are connected to the grid. Jut plain foolish waste of money. At 150 VDC eliminates it from any off-grid consumer system and at only 8 Kwh usable is not much in an off-grid application.

What can be said about it.,most likely uses the same battery chemistry Tesla uses, as Tesla bought the rights from Panasonic.

[solar pete]

I do not get the point of it. Why would anyone want a battery to use at night when you are connected to the grid. Jut plain foolish waste of money. At 150 VDC eliminates it from any off-grid consumer system and at only 8 Kwh usable is not much in an off-grid application.

What can be said about it.,most likely uses the same battery chemistry Tesla uses, as Tesla bought the rights from Panasonic.

Yeah thats sorta what I was thinking, we are getting more people who want a battery for back up when the grid goes down, and for back up for essential loads, and they are prepared to pay for it.

[SunEagle]

Yeah thats sorta what I was thinking, we are getting more people who want a battery for back up when the grid goes down, and for back up for essential loads, and they are prepared to pay for it.

Based on what I have read I can see that the situation is different in Australia where energy storage will becomes cost effective way before it is here in the states.

[solar pete]

It will be interesting to find out how much it costs. We have a similar solution available now from a chinese company called Growatt, they do the same thing with 4 kWh usable and cost about $6,000 all up here installed, now these guys had a very bad rep early on as their inverters were crap but in recent years they have improved a lot. I know of a couple of local installers here who have been using them again for a year or so now and they are getting much better.

http://www.stealthenergy.co.uk/stealth-tile-system/stealthenergytm-growatt-inverter/storage-inverter/index.shtml

[Sunking]

Yeah thats sorta what I was thinking, we are getting more people who want a battery for back up when the grid goes down

Well Pete no disrespect but that is a piss poor use for the battery. It has a 2 Kw max or C4 discharge limit. You can get that for 1/4 the cost using AGM in voltages a person can actually work with. Not sure what the codes are Down Under, but up here once you cross 50 volts, all the rules change. At 150 VDC everything has to be made inaccessible in a UL approved packaged system.

From what I can see this is intened to be used in some sort of hybrid grid tied system. Makes no economic sense.

[solar pete]

Well thats what I was looking for, we have been using the 2v batteries like Andy's 30kW hybrid system for most folks but some just want that cool lithium battery hanging on their wall, go figure. We did a small off grid set up for Vassie (co owner of the sites) and hope to get some photo's of that one on the site tomorrow. Its SMA all the way with this one, turns out the boys were not big fans of the Kaco and SP Pro we used on Andys place

[PNjunction]

I also see not for installation in a salty environment - I'm assuming marine, but could also include coastal residential.

Can the unit operate without the connection to the 'net? You hand off control to a 3rd party, and if you pull the ethernet plug will you be able to access the system yourself, or will you be locked out if you don't know the login? HTTPs is fine, but how secure is the internal web-server? What software stack is it running, and can you update that stack if security issues arise?

In the end, do you trust that 3rd party to regulate the use of your battery, and gather / monetize your consumption data?

[solar pete]

I also see not for installation in a salty environment - I'm assuming marine, but could also include coastal residential.

Can the unit operate without the connection to the 'net? You hand off control to a 3rd party, and if you pull the ethernet plug will you be able to access the system yourself, or will you be locked out if you don't know the login? HTTPs is fine, but how secure is the internal web-server? What software stack is it running, and can you update that stack if security issues arise?

In the end, do you trust that 3rd party to regulate the use of your battery, and gather / monetize your consumption data?

Thanks for the input PNj, I had not delved that far into the specs, it sure is meant to be hybrid only (well from what I took from what I read), I contacted Panasonic Australia yesterday and ended up getting a reply from Panasonic Japan, re pricing and availability, no pricing as yet and no availability until maybe middle of next year?? There was a co branded infomercial thing here on TV the other day where Panasonic and the POCO in Canberra (where trial is underway) seemed to be pumping up each others tires and there was mention the system could be told to charge or discharge via the POCO. Now that does concern me and in my opinion raise issues. I have a feeling that the everyday solar installers wont be able to sell them and the POCO in question AGL who also install solar will have the distribution monopoly, time will tell.

[PNjunction]

... no pricing as yet and no availability until maybe middle of next year??

Ah yes, the old vaporware issue any day now ...

Installation and operation, if tied solely to licensed distributors and installers takes it out of the realm of the ordinary solar user, and becomes a niche product from the walled-garden. Losing interest rapidly.