Dumb Battery Question

[Murby]

This is going to be a whopper but I really don't know the answer..

I'm looking for a battery backup solution for use in a SHTF situation.. Considered the Tesla Powerwall but they won't sell me one unless I agree to install it and have it installed by one of their certified installers..

So I'm back to good old Lead Acid batteries..

I want to purchase the batteries but NOT use them.. this means I'm just going to have them sitting there.. possibly for years.

When I purchased my motorcycle battery, the acid was in a bottle.. Correct me if I'm wrong but a brand new battery that's never had acid in it could probably sit on a shelf for decades right?

Are the Renewable Energy deep cycle batteries sold the same way? Dry? Could I just put them in storage dry until the day I need them?

[max2k]

This is going to be a whopper but I really don't know the answer..

I'm looking for a battery backup solution for use in a SHTF situation.. Considered the Tesla Powerwall but they won't sell me one unless I agree to install it and have it installed by one of their certified installers..

So I'm back to good old Lead Acid batteries..

I want to purchase the batteries but NOT use them.. this means I'm just going to have them sitting there.. possibly for years.

When I purchased my motorcycle battery, the acid was in a bottle.. Correct me if I'm wrong but a brand new battery that's never had acid in it could probably sit on a shelf for decades right?

Are the Renewable Energy deep cycle batteries sold the same way? Dry? Could I just put them in storage dry until the day I need them?

why not buy generator instead? I think it would be much better investment and it might find other uses. Putting money into batteries and not use them is the same as burning the money IMO- battery tech is under heavy development atm so who knows what will be available in just few years.

[organic farmer]

... When I purchased my motorcycle battery, the acid was in a bottle.. Correct me if I'm wrong but a brand new battery that's never had acid in it could probably sit on a shelf for decades right?

Are the Renewable Energy deep cycle batteries sold the same way? Dry? Could I just put them in storage dry until the day I need them?

Yes you can do that.

In my town there are four homes that use solar power. Each of us did it differently. One thing you may see about solar power people is that everyone has their own ideas about how to do things.

Good luck

[Murby]

why not buy generator instead? I think it would be much better investment and it might find other uses. Putting money into batteries and not use them is the same as burning the money IMO- battery tech is under heavy development atm so who knows what will be available in just few years.

If the grid goes down for an extended period, there won't be any fuel to run the generator. I need RENEWABLE solutions.. our 7.56KW solar system is part of that plan.. now I need a place to dump the energy for storage.

[Sunking]

Well the answer is yes and no. Positive Plates can have indefinite shelf life, but not the negative plate. Under ideal condition several years, but you do not have ideal conditions of 35 degrees and bone dry air. Very few if any battery manufactures will sell you dry charged batteries. Dealers are the only ones who get them for them to activate when sold. Batteries will have two date codes stamped on them. One eis the Born On Date or Manufacture date. The second is the Activation Date used for warranty.

[Murby]

Yes you can do that.

In my town there are four homes that use solar power. Each of us did it differently. One thing you may see about solar power people is that everyone has their own ideas about how to do things.

Good luck

Ya.. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here.. I'm just trying to set myself up to be prepared for things going bad one day.. an insurance policy of sorts. I've put up a 7.56 kW solar system with a grid tied SMA inverter.. I even have extra solar panels stored away in case I ever need more power..

Now I have to find a way to store that energy but do so in a way that won't degrade over time if not in use.

I just got an email from Tesla with all the tech documents for their new Powerwall 2... Warrantied (70% power output) for 10 years or 38 megawatt hours of power usage in a 13.5 kWh storage system that comes with an integrated grid tie inverter certified to work WITH my SMA inverter to generate power when the grid goes down... YIKES!

Can that be beat?

[SunEagle]

Ya.. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here.. I'm just trying to set myself up to be prepared for things going bad one day.. an insurance policy of sorts. I've put up a 7.56 kW solar system with a grid tied SMA inverter.. I even have extra solar panels stored away in case I ever need more power..

Now I have to find a way to store that energy but do so in a way that won't degrade over time if not in use.

I just got an email from Tesla with all the tech documents for their new Powerwall 2... Warrantied (70% power output) for 10 years or 38 megawatt hours of power usage in a 13.5 kWh storage system that comes with an integrated grid tie inverter certified to work WITH my SMA inverter to generate power when the grid goes down... YIKES!

Can that be beat?

You do understand that if the SHTF an electrical power source is probably the least thing you will need to survive. Or are you just talking about a week or two without the grid?

[Murby]

You do understand that if the SHTF an electrical power source is probably the least thing you will need to survive. Or are you just talking about a week or two without the grid?

I already have everything else.. Two year supply of food, seeds, water purification, hygiene, weapons, ammo, medications, first aid, antibiotics, communications, replacement parts for important things, protected toughbook and a 30 gig library of reference documents.. and by a coincidence, through my business inventory, I even have the required materials to turn the exterior of my home into a bullet proof fortress. (although it wouldn't exactly be pretty)
With the exception of maybe the most avid/wealthy preppers, most people would be impressed with my setup.

Now I need to worry about energy.. My current solar setup has a payback of 5.25 years... that was a "kill two birds with one stone" deal.. Figuring out a grid down storage system is next and I'm open to all comments and opinions..

Once I get my storage solutions worked out, the next step will be more solar so we can waste energy around here (think air conditioning and leaving lights on) like we waste water... Heck, I might even set up some electric heating...

[adoublee]

Run off grid all the time with no compromises so that if STHF there are no surprises. Ditch low voltage systems. If you are really interested you will make it through this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLYHdgc5MY

[Raj]

Murby said,

Ya.. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here.. I'm just trying to set myself up to be prepared for things going bad one day.. an insurance policy of sorts. I've put up a 7.56 kW solar system with a grid tied SMA inverter.. I even have extra solar panels stored away in case I ever need more power..

Now I have to find a way to store that energy but do so in a way that won't degrade over time if not in use.

I just got an email from Tesla with all the tech documents for their new Powerwall 2... Warrantied (70% power output) for 10 years or 38 megawatt hours of power usage in a 13.5 kWh storage system that comes with an integrated grid tie inverter certified to work WITH my SMA inverter to generate power when the grid goes down... YIKES!

Can that be beat?

I don't think so. If you don't use the Powerwall 2, then you'll have to basically install an off grid system, along with batteries and couple them together. Not cheap or easy. Besides, I think the Powerwall 2 would be a good battery system for a prepper. No maintenance, can be kept at partial state of charge for long periods of time and as you said, it's designed to work with your existing equipment. Just be sure it does meet your needs, (power your loads and charge the battery when the grid is down) and definitely test the system before the installer leaves.

[NEOH]

1) Could NiFe batteries last 20 years or more?

2) Can OPzS batteries be float charged for a long time?

[inetdog]

1) Could NiFe batteries last 20 years or more?

2) Can OPzS batteries be float charged for a long time?

1. Not without a change of electrolyte, and even the powdered form is difficult to store for any length of time.
2. No idea. If they are the telephone style, they are designed to float at the appropriate voltage for years at a time. If they are something else, then float is still probably OK. Just make sure that you have a temperature compensated float.

[Mike90250]

NiFe has problems for SHTF as inetdog pointed out. Learning about and building up a LFP bank with manual matching and balancing seems the secure way to go. LFP batteries parked at 50% charge seem to have a long shelf life.