Well if you have followed Musk for any length of time then you know he is no straight shooter, says one thing and does another. Of course I am speculating but it strongly appears like his vehicles is building a proprietary product. The cells used are from Panasonic as I have learned as are the batteries used in the vehicles. Not the same cells used in the cars, but exclusive to Tesla no one else can access or use. That is not exactly sharing. It also took two years investigating how Tesla was able to stay in biz when it was learned the sales numbers were so low. Musk claimed it was superior management skills and money management. Well I guess you can say that but what kept them afloat and to this day is the $35,000 extra profit they receive from Al Bore for every car sold. Musk never disclosed that until reporters figured it out
The two pieces as of now that makes this battery in compatible with anything out there right now are the operating voltages and this mysterious Ethernet port required to be connected to the Internet. The operating voltage is no big deal. But it does give Musk and a partner manufacture at least a couple of years head start on the competition by offering equipment ready to go.
But this Ethernet thing is troublesome. Having the port is nothing out of the ordinary as it allows the customer access and communication is the customer wants it. But requiring it to be connected to the internet is problematic. Musk will only say it is for giving them the ability to make micro grids. Hogwash! It may have that capability, but there is more to than that. What exactly Musk will not say.
So if you have followed Musk for any length of time, then you know he is not very honest and extremely evasive. It would not surprise me one little bit if someday he turns out to be another Bernie Ebbers.
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Thats funny, after you look past the 5 known points it's all his speculation.Sunking, thank you for digging up details and presenting them without attaching bias.Leave a comment:
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Sunking, thank you for digging up details and presenting them without attaching bias.
Regarding monopoly... Is it still a monopoly if no one is restricted from copying the product, but no one actually does?
Tesla claims they will not enforce patents with their All Our Patents Belong To You statement, and Musk said basically the same thing about the battery system. That would imply that anyone is welcome to build the additional pieces required to utilize this battery (inverter, etc.). Of course there is the warranty issue if your inverter doesn't meet Tesla's requirement.Leave a comment:
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Is that what companies call Monopolies now days? I bet Gates wished he had heard that term 20 years ago when he got busted.
When it comes right down to it, I don't give a damn what Musk does. If he can pull it off more power to him. He certainly took PT Barnum lesson to heart of A Sucker Born Every Minute. Hell i am sitting here thinking of buying a hundred shares of Tesla Stock. Does not bother me to take money from folks who believe in Global Warming. Hell I own McDonald's stock and never eat there.Leave a comment:
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Not sure about the SolarEdge connection, but Musk is on the board of directors at Solar City who has the exclusive installation rights as of now and more to be announced after roll out.
I am not saying there cannot be Hybrid Inverters made to wotk with a high voltage current or voltage source, I am saying I do not know of any. Currently that market is 12, 24, and 48 volts. It can be done, just needs to be a demand for it which Tesla has now made. The genius is it appears Tesla is going to offer the equipment in the form of an Inverter to corner the market or a short term monopoly. Perhaps SolarEdge is the company Tesla is teaming with to make the equipment. It would be a brilliant idea. There is a lot more to this than is letting be let out as of now. As an investor signals to me might be time to buy in to Tesla stock, or a great scam Musk is pulling off. Who cares as long as you can make a quick buck.Leave a comment:
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With regard to a grid-tied inverter, SolarEdge is listed as a partner and their design effectively operates from a constant voltage 350-500 VDC source. Probably not a big leap to go from their existing design to a hybrid that supports these batteries, possibly just firmware.
Edit: Thanks for the objective technical review. I hope this thread can hold a higher bar for civility than the other recent threads on this subject have.Leave a comment:
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Tesla Powerwall, The Specs, Numbers, and Implementation Absolutely Brilliant
As most of you know Tesla anounced the Powerwall Home Energy Storage batteries to be released sometime this Summer in two models. A 7 Kwh version for Grid Tide Load Shedding, and a 10 Kwh UPS straight Battery Inverter for emergency stand by use. The specs were very misleadinf leaving more questions than answers. Got my curiosity up so did some searching on Tesla Forums and EV forums and got some details, useful details along with follow up PR releases from Tesla and Musk Twitter account. So here is what is known and some of my comments.
Input Requirements: 180 to 300 volts AC 5 amps circuit operating at 50/60 Hz. This makes is compatible with any countries electrical architecture. Although a 5 amp circuit at 240 VAC in the USA is unheard of as I do not know of any 5 amp dual pole 240 amp breakers on the market. 240 volt circuits are for large loads not small loads of 1000 watts the charger uses. None the less doable but a special order product.
Nominal Battery Voltage and AH Capacity: 390 volts @ 25 AH for both 7 Kwh and 10 Kwh models. Battery chemistry unknown Lithium at time of writing. Strongly indicates a 108SxP Lithium battery meaning of at least 108 cells give or take up to 5 cells depending on which cathode/anode material they are using from Panasonic. Possible up to 3 parallel strings making it 216 to 314 cells. Best guess is same battery type the Tesla Mega Factory will be producing licensed from Panasonic. The only difference between the 7 Kwh and 10 Kwh models are firmware in the controller limiting how much energy is accessible by the users.
What Comes Inside The Magic Box: 2 Amp AC 390 Volt DC Power Factor Corrected Charger, BMS, and Liquid Thermal Management with both heating and cooling. OK charger and BMS are no surprise here to anyone except one noted feature. You must provide an Internet connection so Tesla can monitor you. Some people are not going to like that very much. The guise or justification is it can be made to use as a microgrid giving up control to someone else. What was a surprise is Thermal Management for such a low density energy battery. Normally that is only required when high energy density cells are combined with high charge and discharge rates to prevent thermal runaway and resulting fires that come with it. Unfortunately Tesla has not published any specifications on how much energy the thermal management uses. Only thing known is it uses pumps, fans, and an electric heating element. All of it mechanical subject to mechanical failure and uses unspecified power. Only thing that makes sense is to keep the batteries at optimum operating temperatures fo maximum power capacity in both cold and hot climates. My take Red Flag.
Output: 350 to 450 Volts DC At a maximum of 6 amps (2 Kw) continuous, and 8 amps burst (3 Kw) for unspecified amount of time. OK this is where a lot of questions come in play. What are you the consumer suppose to do with that? You cannot take it to your Grid Tied Inverter because it is made to use a Current Source, not a voltage source of a battery. It can go to a Battery Inverter if you could find one that operates from 350-450 volts. You could also send it to a Hybrid Inverter is one actually existed. Rumor has it that is the next announcement from Tesla offering a line of Hybrid and Battery Inverters. Absolutely Brilliant, create a monopoly market for your product.
Price Point & Distribution: The 7 Kwh is listed at $3000 and the 10 Kwh is listed at $3500. Both units are the exact same thing, only firmware is different. OK the price is completely BOGUS and good ole fashion Bait and Switch Marketing. Just no nice way to say it. The battery is only available through certified Installation Contractors. Solar City has been named as one of them and their contractor must install the system. Bloomberg reports just to get the battery installed is $7000 and higher. It is speculated Musk is trying to create a monopoly market offering a battery only his company makes Inverters and interface equipment to work with it. At least initially until other manufactures can com eup with some products. But for now Tesla has the whole market exclusively including the distributors and installation. Absolutely brilliant IMHO, reminds me of Rockefeller with Standard oil and Bill Gates with MS
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