Aquion Energy up and coming battery....opinions please

[Sunking]

Where have you seen the battery perform?

Think you have a typo in the Quote field. Those are not my words.

[Living Large]

[QUOTE=northerner;135880]

I have seen that this battery does perform and I'm not concerned about long term warranties. The only thing I would like to see is a further reduction in price, something which is scheduled to happen in time.

By the way, I don't live on an island.

Where have you seen the battery perform?

[northerner]

I see that as an advantage. Take either FLA or LFP batteries down to 100% DOD, and it's game over for them!/QUOTE]True for lithium, not true for FLA. You can take FLA all the way down and still get the warranty. Although that falls under abuse as would be for Aquion or any battery. If Aquion could do what they claim should have no problem with a 10 year free full replacement warranty like EV's come with. Nope only two years, and 5 optional years at extra cost on a battery that is way over priced.

You might think that is good, but IMO puts you on an Island all by yourself.

I have seen that this battery does perform and I'm not concerned about long term warranties. The only thing I would like to see is a further reduction in price, something which is scheduled to happen in time.

By the way, I don't live on an island.

[northerner]

You see a paltry two year warranty as an "advantage"?

A battery that can be taken down to 100% DOD should be idiot proof - and thus should have far better than a 2 year warranty. That was my point. Not the peace of mind that comes with spending $30,000-45,000 on a huge bank of batteries and seeing it fail in year #3.

I am talking about the warranty that IS required.

I believe the 2 year warranty is there to cover possible manufacturing deficiencies. If the specs about the batteries hold true, the warranty beyond should not be necessary as the product is designed to provide a long life and lower overall cost in return. Providing a longer standard warranty may be a deal breaker for some, and there are other alternatives, if that is a concern, especially given that there is little feedback on this product at this point. I'm optimistic that these batteries will pan out in time.

[Sunking]

[QUOTE=northerner;135866]I see that as an advantage. Take either FLA or LFP batteries down to 100% DOD, and it's game over for them!/QUOTE]True for lithium, not true for FLA. You can take FLA all the way down and still get the warranty. Although that falls under abuse as would be for Aquion or any battery. If Aquion could do what they claim should have no problem with a 10 year free full replacement warranty like EV's come with. Nope only two years, and 5 optional years at extra cost on a battery that is way over priced.

You might think that is good, but IMO puts you on an Island all by yourself.

[Living Large]

I see that as an advantage. Take either FLA or LFP batteries down to 100% DOD, and it's game over for them!

Also, it wouldn't mean that you would operate down to 100% on a regular basis with Aquion's batteries, but will give you piece of mind knowing you can take them there with minimal consequence. That's the real warranty, ie the one that's not required.

You see a paltry two year warranty as an "advantage"?

A battery that can be taken down to 100% DOD should be idiot proof - and thus should have far better than a 2 year warranty. That was my point. Not the peace of mind that comes with spending $30,000-45,000 on a huge bank of batteries and seeing it fail in year #3.

I am talking about the warranty that IS required.

[northerner]

Ya know, I honestly have to say I am uneasy of an extended warranty on a battery that is advertised to go to 100% DOD. I am not big on extended warranties in the first place, but on a battery?

I see that as an advantage. Take either FLA or LFP batteries down to 100% DOD, and it's game over for them!

Also, it wouldn't mean that you would operate down to 100% on a regular basis with Aquion's batteries, but will give you piece of mind knowing you can take them there with minimal consequence. That's the real warranty, ie the one that's not required.

[Sunking]

Ya know, I honestly have to say I am uneasy of an extended warranty on a battery that is advertised to go to 100% DOD.

You think? See any Red Flags?

[Living Large]

I already mentioned that. Something is very wrong because mid to high end FLA batteries have better warranties at 1/4 the cost. Huge Red Flag.

Ya know, I honestly have to say I am uneasy of an extended warranty on a battery that is advertised to go to 100% DOD. I am not big on extended warranties in the first place, but on a battery?

[Sunking]

Aquion offers an optional 5 year extended warranty for $99 for a stack and $999 for a module. Much like the GT inverter companies who offer the extended warranties for an additional price.

Amy

I already mentioned that. Something is very wrong because mid to high end FLA batteries have better warranties at 1/4 the cost. Huge Red Flag.

[Amy@altE]

So I take it you do not want to answer:

If Aquion is so good to deliver 10,000 cycles to to 80% DOD; Why is there warranty only 2 years?

Seems if they were that good would offer a warranty of something like 60/120 or like Rolls 5000 Series 36/120 with no caveat of DOD or number of cycles. Discharge them 100% each day and get free replacement for 3 years. At 1/4 the cost beats the heck out of Aquion with no C rate constraints or unusable discharge curve. .

Aquion offers an optional 5 year extended warranty for $99 for a stack and $999 for a module. Much like the GT inverter companies who offer the extended warranties for an additional price.

Amy

[Living Large]

That is not over sized. You have to have 2 to 3 days autonomy to CYA for cloudy days. To get the same usable autonomy using Aquion batteries would require twice the AH capacity at 8 times the cost.

This is precisely why I decided not to use them for my off grid system.

[northerner]

So I take it you do not want to answer:

If Aquion is so good to deliver 10,000 cycles to to 80% DOD; Why is there warranty only 2 years?

Seems if they were that good would offer a warranty of something like 60/120 or like Rolls 5000 Series 36/120 with no caveat of DOD or number of cycles. Discharge them 100% each day and get free replacement for 3 years. At 1/4 the cost beats the heck out of Aquion with no C rate constraints or unusable discharge curve. .

If the batteries make it through 2 years, it is highly likely that there is nothing wrong with the manufacturing, and a warranty is not needed beyond this!

[Sunking]

So I take it you do not want to answer:

If Aquion is so good to deliver 10,000 cycles to to 80% DOD; Why is there warranty only 2 years?

Seems if they were that good would offer a warranty of something like 60/120 or like Rolls 5000 Series 36/120 with no caveat of DOD or number of cycles. Discharge them 100% each day and get free replacement for 3 years. At 1/4 the cost beats the heck out of Aquion with no C rate constraints or unusable discharge curve. .

[northerner]

No it is not available as that is below 40 volts. No 48 volt equipment can access it. To get the same requires the Aquion to be twice as large. You can take FLA down to 80% DOD if needed. You just canno tlet them stay there or do it often. It is no contest. FLA is better bang for the buck both long and short term.

If the Aquion is so great why do they only warrant them for 24 months A Walmart battery comes with a 24 moth warrant and no hassle claim. A good FLA like Rolls 5000 comes with 7 years at 1/4 the cost and will last longer until proven wrong. Its no contest.

When I said the same depth of discharge, I was referring going to 50% DOD, as with FLA's it's very rare to go below 50%. In fact I avoid it at all costs, as it has the potential to impact overall battery life.

Just looking at the Voltage vs Capacity chart put out by Aquion for the S20 stack, I see you reach the 40 volt cutoff with a 6 amp (240 watt @ 40 volts) current draw at about 40 amp hours. 40 ah/51 ah = close to 80 percent DOD. If you had 12 stacks, (which is what I was thinking of for my system) that would be over 2800 watts capability at close to 80 % DOD. I very rarely have that kind of current draw on my system. Maybe occasionally 2500 watts or so max.

So there you go, you can take an AHI battery down to 80% DOD if you size it for your needs.

As for overall cost, see the previous post about the cost comparisons for various battery types. The Aquion S20 stack came in the lowest! Better bang for your buck in the long run. I do agree that up front cost will be higher.