Help with expanding an existing Van Solar setup

[Tazminiandevil]

Got a complex to me situation as I expand and upgrade our OEM solar setup on our Ford Transit.

I bought the van from a local outfitter and from them it came with a 190w (Go Power GP-PV-190M; 19.1v; 9.3a) panel on top and wired for an external hookup panel which we plug in a 200w suitcase setup when possible. This currently going through a Go Power Solar control to 300ah AMG bank. As I understand it this should be a Parallel setup via a PNW controller.

I will be upgrading next month to 400ah Lithium setup from BattleBorn. With that I am also setting ground work to expand my solar considerably. And it was suggested to replace the Go Power solar controller with a Victron MPPT unit.

My plan is to then add a 2nd matching 190w panel and then two narrow 90w panels on the roof. So total roof would be 2 190w and 2 90w.

The issue I can’t wrap my head around is how to wire this up in series-parallel to retain the external solar hook up for the 200w suitcase setup.

Initial thinking is there are a few possible options:

1) to series the 90-90 together, then parallel that with the 2 190s and the external plug? Or is series-series a possibility?
2) to series the 190-190, 90-90, then parallel those strings with the external plug?
3) to series the 190-90, 190-90, then parallel those strings with the external plug?


Follow up questions would be around the need for in line fuses and combiner box…

Thanks in advance for any help!!

**Edit, I will have both the original Go Power PNW controller and the new Victron MPPT 100/50, so would it be easier to match panel size/brand up top, series those together into the MPPT, then use the OEM Go Power to manage the external plug?

-John

[Tazminiandevil]

Ok, so slept on this and did more research and thinking of a new possible approach:

First I will run 2 solar controllers since, well I will have them both.

New Option 1: I wire the 2 smaller 90w panels in parallel that gets their 5a up to 10 and gets me close to the GP-190s 9a. Then I serial this together and run that to the new MPPT controller. Leave the external panel plug on the PNW control on its own.

[chrisski]

I am not the most experienced guy, and I hope people much smarter than me will point out anything wrong I say, that way before I spend more money on my system, I find out what's wrong. I will go over a little about what I plan on doing and why I think your panels may not be enough for a 400 ah battery.

I am designing my first system, and after a month I am starting to purchase parts. I have decided to go with the Victron MPPT charge controller 100v 50a. For panels, six panels, 100 watts at 12 Volts each. I will wire the panels in pairs in series to 24 Volts, and combine the three arrays.

My MPPT controller manual has an ideal input of 700 watts from solar to charge a 12 Volt system. I am honestly still working on the math and I am planning on going with AGM batteries, but this MPPT controller is what I think I need to charge 440 ah of batteries, but I will be studying a month before I decide on the final batteries. My power consumption will be a bit bigger than yours, since I have a fifth wheel.

I wonder if your panels are powerful enough to charge a 400 ah battery. This is of course based off of how much power you use, and how much useable sunlight is in your area.

From what I can gather, there's a few times you want to add a second charge controller, and you seem to be correct in getting one. It sounds like you want to mix and match them with a PMW and a MPPT, and I don't know that will work. It goes with entering the inputs of you want your battery charged. Although I will use an MPPT controller in my system, I have a PWM charge controller I got cheaply off Amazon, and this does not seem like it has a lithium battery mode. I guess there's some schools of thought that that a second charge controller could be wasteful and should not be used.

For when to get a second charge controller, should be when you have an array that will consists of two different types of panels, which in your second post I think you are. Another instance I think a second charge controller would be good, is if you had like panels, but some of them faced a different direction than the others, like where you see houses that have panels on the east roof and the west roof. They get different amounts of sun based on the time of day, and its like having a different type of panels.

I may get a second charge controller If I decide to add to my system with external ground mounted panels.

Do you have a way to monitor your lithium battery?

[Sunking]

Got a complex to me situation

Yep John you sure do. The reason you are not getting much response is because you do not have anything to work with. No one wants to touch it because they are Politically Correct and do not want to hurt your feeling with facts and truth. Never fear Sunking is here to give you an attitude adjustment upside the head with a 2 x 4.

I am familiar with the panel and controller the VAN came equipped with. It is a 12 volt 190 watt panel and a 10-Amp PWM controller. At best.will only generate about 100 watts on top of the Van, About enough to keep a 100 AH battery charged up. It cannot be expanded, it is already at its maximum capacity. Adding a second 200 watt panel was a waste of time and money. You had that on a 300 AH battery which is way larger than your system can handle.. Now you want to use a larger battery and panels your system cannot utilize.

Does that sound like a problem? What the Van came with is a very Niche System, and cannot be expanded. It was dirt cheap made to do one thing, go in a aftermarket Van fabrication shop. . .

You need high voltage Panels made for Grid Tied System, and a much larger MPPT Controller. If a 400 AH LFP battery is your goal will require a minimum of 500 watts of Panels, and a 40 Amp MPPT Charge Controller. You need to go back to the drawing board and come up with realistic plans. What you have now is a mess. If it were me., use what you got, and get yourself two things.

1. A good house battery, like a pair of golf cart batteries,
2. A Electronic Battery Isolator I bet your van already has.This allows your house battery to be charged by the vehicle alternator without discharging the vehicle SLI battery. With an Isolator, the engine alternator can generate more energy in one hour, than your solar system can generate in a few days. With an Isolator you do not need the panels. The Van fabricator knows this, and thus does not need much of a Solar System to pluck a pigeon, err I mean Green Customer off the street. The isolator is what allows them and to use a much larger battery than the panels can support. Its a sales gimmick to greenies to get in their pockets.

Use the panels to impress someone. In the end are not doing much other than extending run time between charges like when the engine is running or you get home and put your batteries on a real charger. .

[SunEagle]

Yep John you sure do. The reason you are not getting much response is because you do not have anything to work with. No one wants to touch it because they are Politically Correct and do not want to hurt your feeling with facts and truth. Never fear Sunking is here to give you an attitude adjustment upside the head with a 2 x 4.

I am familiar with the panel and controller the VAN came equipped with. It is a 12 volt 190 watt panel and a 10-Amp PWM controller. At best.will only generate about 100 watts on top of the Van, About enough to keep a 100 AH battery charged up. It cannot be expanded, it is already at its maximum capacity. Adding a second 200 watt panel was a waste of time and money. You had that on a 300 AH battery which is way larger than your system can handle.. Now you want to use a larger battery and panels your system cannot utilize.

Does that sound like a problem? What the Van came with is a very Niche System, and cannot be expanded. It was dirt cheap made to do one thing, go in a aftermarket Van fabrication shop. . .

You need high voltage Panels made for Grid Tied System, and a much larger MPPT Controller. If a 400 AH LFP battery is your goal will require a minimum of 500 watts of Panels, and a 40 Amp MPPT Charge Controller. You need to go back to the drawing board and come up with realistic plans. What you have now is a mess. If it were me., use what you got, and get yourself two things.

1. A good house battery, like a pair of golf cart batteries,
2. A Electronic Battery Isolator I bet your van already has.This allows your house battery to be charged by the vehicle alternator without discharging the vehicle SLI battery. With an Isolator, the engine alternator can generate more energy in one hour, than your solar system can generate in a few days. With an Isolator you do not need the panels. The Van fabricator knows this, and thus does not need much of a Solar System to pluck a pigeon, err I mean Green Customer off the street. The isolator is what allows them and to use a much larger battery than the panels can support. Its a sales gimmick to greenies to get in their pockets.

Use the panels to impress someone. In the end are not doing much other than extending run time between charges like when the engine is running or you get home and put your batteries on a real charger. .

Hey Sunking. Long time no hear. Hope all is well with you and your family.

[Sunking]

Hey Sunking. Long time no hear. Hope all is well with you and your family.

Doing fine sir. Moved back to the states to help with family business. Life has come full circle for me. I started my career 40 years ago at an electric utility in Oklahoma. Today it is one of the largest utilities in the country covering 11 states. I am back as a Consultant building the nations largest P25 Radio Network comprising of around 360 Tower sites. Has kept me very busy for a retired ole fart. Learned a lot in the last year in my absence.

I hope you, your family, Mike, Steve, and JPM are all doing well during the pandemic. Strange, I had to go back to Panama last week to take care of some biz. Completely different world down there. Most are not even aware there is a pandemic. It was nice getting back to normalcy for a few days. My wife, kids, and I all had the Corona Virus and never really knew it as that was back in early February when we had chest colds. Wife and Daughter being doctors, tested all of us a few weeks ago and found out we already had it and immune. Funny some people get it and don't have any real severe symptoms.

My Daughter is the hero of the family though and having a rough go at it as she is the ICU HNIC at St John;s Hospital in Tulsa. First Tulsan that died was under her watch. Fortunately the hospitals here are not being over run, and for the most part are empty. Strange going by Hospitals here seeing empty parking lots. As for me, the golf courses are still open..

[Mike90250]

......I hope you, your family, Mike, Steve, and JPM are all doing well during the pandemic. .......

What pandemic ? I have 90 acres of maintenance to deal with, and the hardware store is still open. Hardly spend any time in town

[Sunking]

What pandemic ? I have 90 acres of maintenance to deal with, and the hardware store is still open. Hardly spend any time in town

Glad to hear you are doing OK.

[J.P.M.]

Doing fine sir. Moved back to the states to help with family business. Life has come full circle for me. I started my career 40 years ago at an electric utility in Oklahoma. Today it is one of the largest utilities in the country covering 11 states. I am back as a Consultant building the nations largest P25 Radio Network comprising of around 360 Tower sites. Has kept me very busy for a retired ole fart. Learned a lot in the last year in my absence.

I hope you, your family, Mike, Steve, and JPM are all doing well during the pandemic. Strange, I had to go back to Panama last week to take care of some biz. Completely different world down there. Most are not even aware there is a pandemic. It was nice getting back to normalcy for a few days. My wife, kids, and I all had the Corona Virus and never really knew it as that was back in early February when we had chest colds. Wife and Daughter being doctors, tested all of us a few weeks ago and found out we already had it and immune. Funny some people get it and don't have any real severe symptoms.

My Daughter is the hero of the family though and having a rough go at it as she is the ICU HNIC at St John;s Hospital in Tulsa. First Tulsan that died was under her watch. Fortunately the hospitals here are not being over run, and for the most part are empty. Strange going by Hospitals here seeing empty parking lots. As for me, the golf courses are still open..

Welcome back. Glad to hear you & family are doing well. Hope business thrives as much as you want.

After 10 months or so AWOL around here, I figured you might be permanently billeted on the binnacle list.

Do those tower sites look or function anything like what the Corps called "anthills" with antennae sticking out of them ?

SWMBO (Nurse/Practitioner) thinks we got Covid 19 - most likely at DR's off during annual physicals. Minor cold/flu symptoms & some other listed symptomatic stuff. I've got my doubts but my O2 sat. dropped to ~ 88% from my normal very high 90's. We both shook it off after a few days. Not tested yet.

All else here nominal/SOS for me.

Regards,

J.P.M.

[Sunking]

Do those tower sites look or function anything like what the Corps called "anthills" with antennae sticking out of them ?

No sir, they lok like your every day broadcast tower. Ranging in height from 350 to 1200 feet, taller than cell towers. P25 Radio System is a Network Trunking Radio. Primary used by Military, Governments, Law Enforcement, and Utilities. DOD has the largest P25 System. AEP (American Electric Power) has the largest civilian P25 System covering 11 states. Example if say you were a USN or USMC personnel, you could be at your home in San Diego, and talk to your commander in Japan when he is at the Officers Club on your Handy Talkie or mobile. The System knows where you are at and capable of routing the traffic. Works a lot like the old analog cellular network, just digital radio today.

SWMBO (Nurse/Practitioner) thinks we got Covid 19 - most likely at DR's off during annual physicals. Minor cold/flu symptoms & some other listed symptomatic stuff. I've got my doubts but my O2 sat. dropped to ~ 88% from my normal very high 90's. We both shook it off after a few days. Not tested yet.

Well get tested JPM. This is one test you actually want to Test Positive. Sounds crazy I know, but if you did have it, means you are immune and no longer have to worry about it, and can return to normal activity. My daughter Amy gave it to all of us unknowingly of course.

My Daughter is a bit stressed being a doctor in ICU. Oklahoma was not hit very hard, so the hospitals were not over run. What gets to my daughter and most the doctors and staff is during this pandemic, if you are admitted, NO VISITORS allowed. If admitted you are advised to put your affairs in order and say your goodbye to everyone because the next time anyone will see you is when they pick you up either in a Car or Body Bag. Only people around are doctors and nurses to hold your hand while you die alone. Imagine having to tell you wife and children goodby via Facetime on an IPAD. Patients are fully aware they are going to die alone. Only good thing is, at least around here, death rate is just under 1%.

So I encourage you to get tested JPM, and hope you have already had the virus.I cannot help to think this virus was no accident. My daughter and wife tell me otherwise.

[J.P.M.]

No sir, they lok like your every day broadcast tower. Ranging in height from 350 to 1200 feet, taller than cell towers. P25 Radio System is a Network Trunking Radio. Primary used by Military, Governments, Law Enforcement, and Utilities. DOD has the largest P25 System. AEP (American Electric Power) has the largest civilian P25 System covering 11 states. Example if say you were a USN or USMC personnel, you could be at your home in San Diego, and talk to your commander in Japan when he is at the Officers Club on your Handy Talkie or mobile. The System knows where you are at and capable of routing the traffic. Works a lot like the old analog cellular network, just digital radio today.



Well get tested JPM. This is one test you actually want to Test Positive. Sounds crazy I know, but if you did have it, means you are immune and no longer have to worry about it, and can return to normal activity. My daughter Amy gave it to all of us unknowingly of course.

My Daughter is a bit stressed being a doctor in ICU. Oklahoma was not hit very hard, so the hospitals were not over run. What gets to my daughter and most the doctors and staff is during this pandemic, if you are admitted, NO VISITORS allowed. If admitted you are advised to put your affairs in order and say your goodbye to everyone because the next time anyone will see you is when they pick you up either in a Car or Body Bag. Only people around are doctors and nurses to hold your hand while you die alone. Imagine having to tell you wife and children goodby via Facetime on an IPAD. Patients are fully aware they are going to die alone. Only good thing is, at least around here, death rate is just under 1%.

So I encourage you to get tested JPM, and hope you have already had the virus.I cannot help to think this virus was no accident. My daughter and wife tell me otherwise.

Thank you for the reply, advice and info.

Sounds like you're having fun kicking ass and taking names. If your happy, I'm with you on that at 100+ % reactor power.

I've no problem imaging dying alone. FWIW, I plan on it and have for many years now as part of getting my affairs in order. Besides, I hate goodbyes.

Rant mode on.

Unlike most everything else about this freakin' mess, and even though I'm convinced this whole thing is B.S. I'll get tested.

A typical flu season of the recent past kills between maybe ~ 10,000 and maybe 60,000 folks in the U.S. Don't get me wrong - that sucks and this situation has produced a higher death rate - but is it worth wrecking an economy over ? Besides, I've got an ignorant but fairly strong suspicion that "X" number of people will die from this - sooner if no quarantine measures are taken, or later if we all hide in the closet - but "X" will be about the same number either, or any, way until we get herd immunity and/or a vaccine comes along or both. I say rip the baidaid off now and get the pain over with ASAP and get on with life.
Testing doesn't sound crazy to me. Makes perfect sense - as in "Ya' gotta' know where you start from before you can map and plan where you're doin'.
To that end, I'd have started with mandatory testing for everyone and made it a priority back in Feb. or before.
That testing seems such a low priority is just one more example of what I see as the insanity of most of all the B.S. and the worst mismanagement and leadership of this country by all the powers that be - everyone- in my experience.

I'd like to get tested along with everyone else and am chomping at the bit to do so. However, I'll only get tested when/if I get/have confidence that the testing is more than ineffective/feelgood B.S. I feel OK and still quarantine to the max, mask up/social dist. etc., but I ain't there yet on confidence in testing or for that matter most of a medical system that treats most patients as little more than cash cows, and I don't believe I have enough knowledge of the subject to figure it out for myself at this time to replace my cynicism about the assholes running the game. So, I'm at an existential crisis.

Rant mode off.