Adding more panels to RV?

[Isaac-1]

To get a bit even more off topic on this thread I started, I agree solar and RE in general should be about practicality to a degree, and not a religion. Solar may sound nice, and may even work the vast majority of the time in some locations, but that does not mean it can or will work for everyone as a sole source of power.

[Sunking]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

[Mike90250]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Actually, it's a realistic view. I try to minimize generator use, and am "overpaneled". but with weeks of clouds & rain, there are still rare times generators need to run to provide power.

[Sunking]

My goal here is to keep the motorhome cool during mid day stops while on the road (stopping to eat, tourist stop, get supplies, etc.) , it is not to embrace solar as sole solution.

Isac that is super easy to do if you have an Electronic Battery Isolator. Your engine alternator can easily recharge in 30 minutes of driving. If diesel do what truckers do, let the engine idle while you shop and eat. Hell truckers let the engines run all night long while they sleep. Even if gas engine wil not hurt to let it run at idle.

Your alternator can generate more power in 1 hour than your panels can generate in a day. All you have to do is add the Isolator for $60 to replace several thousands dollars of panels and controller.

[SunEagle]

Good on you for doing and not listening to what others tell you can't be done. Thanks for sharing here.

I agree that Zoar seems to have found a way to make his system profitable. But I would imagine someone else duplicating that system would spend a lot more and not show a profit between a solar/battery system and generator powered system.

I would love to see more solar used but I am also an Electrical Engineer and a realist when it comes to power generation and distribution. What most people that hate to use fossil fuel of any kind do not realize or refuse to believe is that RE can't provide power 24/7/365 no matter what some State or City Government says about going 100% RE by year XXXX. I say good luck with that goal and don't forget to have candles around when it gets dark.

[littleharbor]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Answer me this. Is this anti -fossil fuel wonder you've built an EV? Wind powered? Wood fired steam engine? Peddle powered? or ,God forbid, diesel or gas powered?

[J.P.M.]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Good luck. Sorry to see you go. Farewell from the forum of few(er) illusions.

[Zoar]

Impressive system. I am glad it is working out for you.

Although I am surprised at the lost cost considering you have lithium batteries. But then again if you work at putting the system together yourself you can find the parts for great prices.

For those that are reading, you can find some great quite generators in the 3000 watt area like the Yamaha or Honda that cost < $1/watt and way below that $8000. But to each their own on where they want to get their power from.

I appreciate you posting this information.

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

[adoublee]

The costs for aluminum brackets, design and fabricating a structure with pneumatic piston arms to assist with lifting and lowering the solar awning, and also 8 300 watt solar panels, outback controller, inverter, lithium batteries, battery case, all wiring and connectors, etc is about $18,000. Then subtract 30% for Federal credit on my tax return so out of pocket was about $12,000 yet compared to a good, fairly quiet GENERATOR which costs about $8,000, the additional cost works out to only about $4,000 above doing it conventionally. And I do not have any fuel costs as I would with a Generator. The costs in the US are $500 to $1,000 a month for fuel for generators on food trucks. Obviously in a mere 4 to 8 months I am in the BLACK then and the solar vs generator argument is mute. It is MAKING ME MONEY! Plus, with solar panels on my truck I have so many other benefits---no mess and pain in the ass of buying fuel, transporting fuel, refueling, no stink of the exhaust, no noise at all (even quiet generators make noise especially in a confined space... And I am a rolling POWER PLANT that is using the SUN to make all my electricity for all me electrical needs; that means self reliance and self sufficiency. And solar saves me TIME! No time loss for getting fuel, refueling, etc.. and on a food truck TIME IS MONEY.

Good on you for doing and not listening to what others tell you can't be done. Thanks for sharing here.

[SunEagle]

I know the short answer is always you can't run air conditioning on solar and the concern about battery recovery on solar. The difference here is that I am not really trying to "run" air conditioning full time on solar or depending on solar for battery recovery. I don't mind running my generator or plugging in at night to recharge the batteries, all I want from the solar is to cushion the drain on the batteries while they are supplying power to run the air conditioner. In this case an air conditioner that I have successfully ran (in water cooling mode) using a Honda EU-1000i.

Ideally I would like to get 3-4 hours of air conditioner run time, for the sake of easy math lets use some round numbers. Lets assume the battery draw to run the 9000 btu air conditioner is 100 amps per hour, so in theory a 200AH Lithium battery bank could then run said air conditioner for 2 hours ignoring depth of discharge issues, however if I had a solar array that produced 50 AH of electricity during peak mid day hours, in theory this could extend the run time of the above mentioned 200 AH battery bank to 4 hours. If the solar panels could generate 75 AH the run time would be extended to 6 hours, etc. Now I know I don't have enough roof top real estate for that last example, it was just meant as an illustration of concept. I am also not advocating a 200AH battery bank, again it was just used for an illustration.

My goal here is to keep the motorhome cool during mid day stops while on the road (stopping to eat, tourist stop, get supplies, etc.) , it is not to embrace solar as sole solution.

A typical day might go something like this, spend the night plugged into shore power at an RV park so starting off with fully charged batteries, plan to travel about 300 miles in the day, drive so a couple of hours, pull off to see the worlds largest ball of yarn or something, keep the motorhome cool while there for half an hour, get back on for another hour or so (running the generator to power the roof air conditioner and recharge some of the lost power from stop #1), See a sign for Bubba's Best BBQ and decide to stop for lunch, again keep the motorhome cool, then back on the road with the generator running for another hour or two, before stopping at the main planned attraction for the day, lets say 2.5 hours spent touring the museum of interesting rocks, again trying to keep the motorhome cool with a combination of battery and solar power. By now the batteries are fairly low, so another hour or so on the road with the generator running and we are at our stop for the night, the batteries can recharge on shore power, and we can be off again the next day.

What you suggest is very doable. As long as you understand that you will not get the same amount of usable sunlight every day and that you may not get any sunlight when you park your RV while you go to get something to eat or to visit a museum. If you need to figure extra battery into those times the costs start to go up very quickly.

So you might be able to build a system to run that AC unit most days but unless you over size your battery / pv system there will be days your RV will become hot until you get back on the road and run your generator. Maybe those days your go out to start up the cooling system before your wife enters the RV.

I use to do that in the Winter when it got real cold or icy outside so I would "warm up" the car before my wife and I took off.

[Isaac-1]

I know the short answer is always you can't run air conditioning on solar and the concern about battery recovery on solar. The difference here is that I am not really trying to "run" air conditioning full time on solar or depending on solar for battery recovery. I don't mind running my generator or plugging in at night to recharge the batteries, all I want from the solar is to cushion the drain on the batteries while they are supplying power to run the air conditioner. In this case an air conditioner that I have successfully ran (in water cooling mode) using a Honda EU-1000i.

Ideally I would like to get 3-4 hours of air conditioner run time, for the sake of easy math lets use some round numbers. Lets assume the battery draw to run the 9000 btu air conditioner is 100 amps per hour, so in theory a 200AH Lithium battery bank could then run said air conditioner for 2 hours ignoring depth of discharge issues, however if I had a solar array that produced 50 AH of electricity during peak mid day hours, in theory this could extend the run time of the above mentioned 200 AH battery bank to 4 hours. If the solar panels could generate 75 AH the run time would be extended to 6 hours, etc. Now I know I don't have enough roof top real estate for that last example, it was just meant as an illustration of concept. I am also not advocating a 200AH battery bank, again it was just used for an illustration.

My goal here is to keep the motorhome cool during mid day stops while on the road (stopping to eat, tourist stop, get supplies, etc.) , it is not to embrace solar as sole solution.

A typical day might go something like this, spend the night plugged into shore power at an RV park so starting off with fully charged batteries, plan to travel about 300 miles in the day, drive so a couple of hours, pull off to see the worlds largest ball of yarn or something, keep the motorhome cool while there for half an hour, get back on for another hour or so (running the generator to power the roof air conditioner and recharge some of the lost power from stop #1), See a sign for Bubba's Best BBQ and decide to stop for lunch, again keep the motorhome cool, then back on the road with the generator running for another hour or two, before stopping at the main planned attraction for the day, lets say 2.5 hours spent touring the museum of interesting rocks, again trying to keep the motorhome cool with a combination of battery and solar power. By now the batteries are fairly low, so another hour or so on the road with the generator running and we are at our stop for the night, the batteries can recharge on shore power, and we can be off again the next day.

[SunEagle]

The costs for aluminum brackets, design and fabricating a structure with pneumatic piston arms to assist with lifting and lowering the solar awning, and also 8 300 watt solar panels, outback controller, inverter, lithium batteries, battery case, all wiring and connectors, etc is about $18,000. Then subtract 30% for Federal credit on my tax return so out of pocket was about $12,000 yet compared to a good, fairly quiet GENERATOR which costs about $8,000, the additional cost works out to only about $4,000 above doing it conventionally. And I do not have any fuel costs as I would with a Generator. The costs in the US are $500 to $1,000 a month for fuel for generators on food trucks. Obviously in a mere 4 to 8 months I am in the BLACK then and the solar vs generator argument is mute. It is MAKING ME MONEY! Plus, with solar panels on my truck I have so many other benefits---no mess and pain in the ass of buying fuel, transporting fuel, refueling, no stink of the exhaust, no noise at all (even quiet generators make noise especially in a confined space... And I am a rolling POWER PLANT that is using the SUN to make all my electricity for all me electrical needs; that means self reliance and self sufficiency. And solar saves me TIME! No time loss for getting fuel, refueling, etc.. and on a food truck TIME IS MONEY.

In addition, having SOLAR on my food truck draws more customers! It is a TV and RADIO and MEDIA magnet! It is by far the best advertising you could ever get and it is very sound Public Relations. It makes everyone feel good! If I tried to put a price on the advertising and positive public relations that the Solar System adds to me truck I would have to pay a firm $20,000 to $30,000 a YEAR for what the solar panels do for the business. I did not pay this out yet I derive the benefits as if I did, so the solar system is actually saving me money and making me money.

So the solar panels are a NET positive in many ways, particularly when you add up the benefits and the costs I do not have have by going with a solar system.

Finally, how does it make me feel? It makes me feel great! I absolutely love being self-reliant/self-sufficient and NOT having to worry about fuel or the mess and stink/fumes and the noise... I can set up in a field and do a multi day event / a festival for example and NOT be worrying about fossil fuels or plugging in AND I can charge everyone's cell phones and laptops---which is a service we offer FOR FREE from the SUN!... Putting a solar and battery based systems on my food truck is one of the best things I have ever done in my lifetime. Yes. In my lifetime. What is the cost benefit of that???

Secondly you asked me what is my Daily watt usage? It all depends. Daily watt usage is incredibly variable and inconsistent.

I do power a full sized restaurant refrigerator 24/7/365 and water pumps and appliances and lights and water heater and everything I need as I have needed them. Although the frig runs all the time the other power uses are entirely dependent on events and bookings for the truck and that varies more than the moods of a severe bi-polar person. So, I can not give you Daily watt usage unless I went to my Outback controller and did some analysis on the past year to come up with the average although quite frankly average is of NO real value (and why I have no done it). It may be nice but the important thing for me to know is when we are slamming out pizzas and we have had 8, 10, 12 hours of customers and we are using appliances and lights and we are working as fast as we can, on those days and nights --- we have POWER. and yes we have had POWER! That is what matters.

Impressive system. I am glad it is working out for you.

Although I am surprised at the lost cost considering you have lithium batteries. But then again if you work at putting the system together yourself you can find the parts for great prices.

For those that are reading, you can find some great quite generators in the 3000 watt area like the Yamaha or Honda that cost < $1/watt and way below that $8000. But to each their own on where they want to get their power from.

I appreciate you posting this information.

[Zoar]

Out of curiosity what was your investment cost for the solar/battery system on that truck and what is the daily watt hour usage?

The costs for aluminum brackets, design and fabricating a structure with pneumatic piston arms to assist with lifting and lowering the solar awning, and also 8 300 watt solar panels, outback controller, inverter, lithium batteries, battery case, all wiring and connectors, etc is about $18,000. Then subtract 30% for Federal credit on my tax return so out of pocket was about $12,000 yet compared to a good, fairly quiet GENERATOR which costs about $8,000, the additional cost works out to only about $4,000 above doing it conventionally. And I do not have any fuel costs as I would with a Generator. The costs in the US are $500 to $1,000 a month for fuel for generators on food trucks. Obviously in a mere 4 to 8 months I am in the BLACK then and the solar vs generator argument is mute. It is MAKING ME MONEY! Plus, with solar panels on my truck I have so many other benefits---no mess and pain in the ass of buying fuel, transporting fuel, refueling, no stink of the exhaust, no noise at all (even quiet generators make noise especially in a confined space... And I am a rolling POWER PLANT that is using the SUN to make all my electricity for all me electrical needs; that means self reliance and self sufficiency. And solar saves me TIME! No time loss for getting fuel, refueling, etc.. and on a food truck TIME IS MONEY.

In addition, having SOLAR on my food truck draws more customers! It is a TV and RADIO and MEDIA magnet! It is by far the best advertising you could ever get and it is very sound Public Relations. It makes everyone feel good! If I tried to put a price on the advertising and positive public relations that the Solar System adds to my truck I would have to pay a firm $20,000 to $30,000 a YEAR for what the solar panels do for the business. I did not pay this out yet I derive the benefits as if I did, so the solar system is actually saving me money and making me money.

So the solar panels are a NET positive in many ways, particularly when you add up the benefits and the costs I do not have by going with a solar system.

Finally, how does it make me feel? It makes me feel great! I absolutely love being self-reliant/self-sufficient and NOT having to worry about fuel or the mess and stink/fumes and the noise... I can set up in a field and do a multi day event / a festival for example and NOT be worrying about fossil fuels or plugging in AND I can charge everyone's cell phones and laptops---which is a service we offer FOR FREE from the SUN!... Putting a solar and battery based systems on my food truck is one of the best things I have ever done in my lifetime. Yes. In my lifetime. What is the cost benefit of that???

Secondly you asked me what is my Daily watt usage? It all depends. Daily watt usage is incredibly variable and inconsistent.

I do power a full sized restaurant refrigerator 24/7/365 and water pumps and appliances and lights and water heater and everything I need as I have needed them. Although the frig runs all the time the other power uses are entirely dependent on events and bookings for the truck and that varies more than the moods of a severe bi-polar person. So, I can not give you Daily watt usage unless I went to my Outback controller and did some analysis on the past year to come up with the average although quite frankly average is of NO real value (and why I have no done it). It may be nice but the important thing for me to know is when we are slamming out pizzas and we have had 8, 10, 12 hours of customers and we are using appliances and lights and we are working as fast as we can, on those days and nights --- we have POWER. and yes we have had POWER! That is what matters.

[ewarnerusa]

I agree, the air conditioning idea is probably not going to happen. Although the idea of running the 9000 btu one is more realistic, I don't think even 4 burly batteries are going to get you much run time, much less be able to recover from that deep discharge in a reasonable amount of time with 800 watts solar.
This is an interesting website. I haven't watched much of their video and just power read the webpage, but you may find it interesting. Noteworthiness is they are recommending 900+ Ah of lithium batteries, 3000 watt inverter, and 1000+ watts of solar with tilt mounting. But they are also talking about running a 13.5 btu AC.

http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/off-grid-solar-rv-air-conditioning

I've been interested in the Micro Air products which is a system of minimizing the peak current draw from an AC compressor during startup. For me it would be a way to get some use out of our Yamaha 2400 generator which can barely run our 13.5 btu AC in ideal circumstances. It lets us down in scenarios where we actually want it, like camping at high elevation in summer heat, so I don't even bring it with anymore. But if this product could make it reliably work, then maybe we would. I'm sure this type of product could help an inverter cope as well.

http://www.microair.net/main/products/product.php?id=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soP0uZFd0nQ&feature=youtu.be

[Sunking]

As to the reason that I desire more solar power, my wife has a health condition where she needs to avoid getting overheated, and I would like the ability to run an air conditioner for at least a couple of hours at a time off of the battery system. The motorhome is equipped with a 13,500 btu roof top air conditioner / heat pump, .

Not going to happen. Only way you can do that is either with the engine alternator running or with a generator.