My 10 watt panel with using solar-tite 384 encapsulant instead of sylgard

[russ]

There is a bit of a difference between the first panel a company makes and what most individuals will ever be able to make.

1) The company will have the proper equipment

2) The company will employee people with the necessary skills

3) The company will make the effort to get the UL listing which an individual can not.

4) That is thermopane - not thermopain - unless you cut or burn yourself working with it.

5) The insulated glass arrangement will jack up the cost more than ever. I have used that scheme to protect art glass in my home.

Russ

[conntaxman]

putting down people

Its something to read were one is telling the other, "oh you can't do it//your going to make Junk//they won't last 20 years// on on on ..I guess some people just like putting others down.
For those making panels, keep up the good work, and I think that most know what they are getting into and how to go about it, and are having Fun .Before any company started to mass produce, they only made one. A test model.
one could also use a liquid film brushed or sprayed on the face to protect the cell from air ,then place it in-between two pieces of glass and have silaca to remove moisture and seal to make a thermopain.
Have fun... don't go by what anyone else tells you.[Some people can't even tie their shoe}

[Sunking]

Open a ROTH IRA and put that same money in say 1000 per year and buy the time you retire it will pay your electric bill. After 7 years and you can take out what you put in as it will have quadrupled still paying your electric bill and you can go on a cruise with what you invested.

FWIW you cannot use your homemade panels on your home as they are not UL listed. No city would approve permits, no inspector would approve inspection, no POCO would connect you, and no insurance company would pay for damages.

[chris bush]

Energy costs in NH etc

I am 53, and looking towards retirement someday. I am also concerned about future cost of energy

I made a 65 watt panel (aluminum frames, sylgard, 1/8 " tempered glass, 36 3 x 6 cells) recently and am planning to make 3 more for 260 watts total starting - put them on my home made designed post.

My first panel cost was higher, as I was investigating sources but now (if I can continue to find solar tite when I am ready !) my cost is around 143 per panel - this includes shipping for all items. Sunelec does sell panels cheap, but shipping brings it over my cost.

Electricity cost in NH from my current bill is from .15 per watt (off time water heater) to .18 per watt. So, with only 250 watts, and 6 hours a day sun (we get a lot) I can only hope to make 1.5 kilowatts which is .27 per day which is .27 x 30 about 9 dollars a month.

Not much I agree, but I feel if I spend the money I have now (which I won't have later when I retire) to put in panels, I will save on electricity when I don't have the money to spend for it. Kind of like an IRA where you pay taxes on your money later, when you are in a lower tax bracket.

And I intend to eventually get up to 3 kw system. In which case, under current costs, it would be $108 a month.

Building myself allows me to put the money up when I have it, instead of coming up with 3000 - 6000 for a complete system. A little at a time

I guess it is an individual thing, but I am still excited about it. And, with the increased interest, who knows - maybe someone will come up with a more efficient solar material...

Chris Bush

[russ]

Good deal on beer in the Philippines at least.

I can remember buying a case of 24 bottles with 5 dollars and having change left over. Of course that was almost 50 years back.

I believe the price here is about like Australia - alcohol was cheap 10 years back but sin taxes are a no brainer for politicians.

Russ

[Pylonman]

Ah, can I get more info about Solartite?

[john p]

Sunking you and I both know that its just plain stupid for governments to be handing out huge amounts of taxpayers money for subsidies.. They do it for many reasons but one is they like to look like they are "going green" its just unsupportable.As for nuclear power dont get me started on that. I would start building nuclear powerplants tomorrow if in power. But we stupidly sell it to others so they can have cheap power and we use dirty coal. and yes some gas fired ones.here electricity costs about 22c per kwh.
We are very overtaxed on things here. but having said that, its not that thats going to make people stop personal imports as retail is run by 2 very greedy groups in Aus that control just about all major department and grocery outlets.
But sometimes I think we still very lucky for many reasons in Aus. We never had hardly any problems with that last financial woreld disaster. All the banks at that time made mega profits. And compared to the prices of things people have to pay in Philippines for electronics,household appliances and energy we are well off, at least wages are fairly high here.
If you took the average monthly wage of a worker in Aus $3200 and the average wage of a worker in Philippines $250, Then compare buying power
AUS PHILS
Gasoline $5 $4.50
32" LCD TV $450 $800
Electricity $.22 kwh $.24
80 w solar panel $400 $450
can of beer $1.60 $.45
good residence
3 bedroom $300,000 $110,000

[Sunking]

John hold on a minute you are talking two separate issues with a common denominator. You will not like what I say nor any of your countrymen but it is the plain fact that it is your socialistic government entitlements and taxes causing the high prices which is what I am driving at.

On one hand you argue retailers charge outrageous profits right. Why? Because of extremely large government subsidies. Where does that money come from? It comes from very high taxes on energy. There is no reason you should be paying as you claim $5/gal for gasoline and 40-cents per Kwh.

On the other hand you argue you can buy them cheaply by buying direct imports, which should be about the same us poor stupid Americans pay, and that retailers want to import tarrifs on imports.

What I am really driving at the governments, both yours and mine cannot solve an energy problem. They can only make it worse and penalize the people they govern. The governments need to remove themselves from the equation and let the market decide where the energy will come from. There is no logical reason Australia should have any kind of problem with electricity. Like the USA you shoot yourself in the foot with silly energy policies. Australia has the worlds largest supply of uranium, it is inexhaustible measuring in the billions of years of supply for itself and the rest of the world. You have all the cheap, clean, and safe enrgy you need but refuse to use it. Instead you sell it to other countries like China, USA, India, Japan, France, and Pakistan.

With that said John I am not criticizing you, because we are just as big as morons here in the USA, and is ironic as we crushed socialism in the 80's, and turned Russia and China into capitalist. Ironic we are now perusing socialism when we know darn good and well it doesn't work. It is Crazy dude.

[john p]

sadly the answer is simple.. we get ripped off badly here on the price of many items. its for this reason now many people direct import things from other countries.
The major retailers here at the moment are complaining to the govt its not fair that people can now import things under a $1000 and pay no import duty ,They claim its reducing their huge over inflated profits. but even if we were forced to pay import duty the prices would still be far lower than from retailers here.
Solar companies here overcharge to get maximum profits from over generous rebates.
Sunking I remember a long time ago I had an arguement of the small cost differences between quality deep cycle cells and lithium ion batteries.. your claim was the difference was vast . I then tried to explain that not true . But you didnt believe.. It is not as the cost of deep cycle cells are about double of what they are in USA. Same for MPPT controlers here they start at over $700 and go to about $1200.
We pay about $5.50 for gasoline(petrol) here.
And our dollar is equal to or just above the value of the US dollar

[Sunking]

here are some aprox prices of "certified" panels in Australia.. 1 off prices
80w = $400
120w = $650
175w = $900

Just why the heck is it so expensive in Australia John? Here in the USA certified panels are just below $2 per watt. Please do not tell me it is because Australia has to import them because that does not hold water, the UL listed inexpensive panels we get in the USA are imported. US made panels, what few there are are well above the $2/watt range. Let's see if you come up with the same answer I have.

[john p]

here are some aprox prices of "certified" panels in Australia.. 1 off prices
80w = $400
120w = $650
175w = $900

[Sunking]

I really get offended when people just get flamed for making diy panels...

You might want to seek some professional help with that problem if you let people on the Web get under your skin when they disagree with you. Otherwise you are going to spend your whole life being offended and become a very bitter person

[nechaus]

Man,

The price of electricity is different all around the world, each country and each state is different.

You say DIY panels wont last long, Well infact they do, but its up to the person making them to vapor barrier them correctly.

As long as each cells is sealed with a good quality resin, and encapsulated correctly. they should do swell..

Some of my friends panels have lasted over 12 months and still putting out the right power... i dont see them dieing anytime soon...


DIY panels are great for camping, garden lights ect.. anything ...


I really get offended when people just get flamed for making diy panels...
why not just offer them support so they will last 10 + years...
Its very possible

[Sunking]

Guess it depends on what you call a good investment. In my book is a good investment doubles every 5 to 7 years, not break even in 20 or 30 years.

[jrloar]

Cost

I know it has been a while since this post was active but I had a thaught no one has talked about. If a panel is built GOOD (and that is easy) it will last 30 + years. If the panel costs me $1 a wat to build (and they do) what am I saving 20 or 25 years from now on my electric bill? I would BET this is a very good investmant wouldent you?