Are DIY Solar Panels Worth it?

[tsupyo]

An engineer and no idea of what might be involved with UL certification?

Hmmm...I'm not sure I used the words I have completely zero idea of what is involved with UL certification...in fact I think I illustrated enough to already know

It is expensive and takes time.

What I'm interested in are the specifics, so if you would please point me in the right direction, I'd be very appreciative.

Further, I do comprehend/grasp the idea behind commercialization and mass prodution, but I will maintain that in projects like this DIY will typically win out because there arent a lot of moving parts and the materials used are (for the most part) raw/easy to find (excluding the actual cell itself). With that said I didnt see anything to address the questions I had regarding materials? Please feel free to elaborate!

[FloridaSun]

Hmmm...I'm not sure I used the words I have completely zero idea of what is involved with UL certification...in fact I think I illustrated enough to already know



What I'm interested in are the specifics, so if you would please point me in the right direction, I'd be very appreciative.

Further, I do comprehend/grasp the idea behind commercialization and mass prodution, but I will maintain that in projects like this DIY will typically win out because there arent a lot of moving parts and the materials used are (for the most part) raw/easy to find (excluding the actual cell itself). With that said I didnt see anything to address the questions I had regarding materials? Please feel free to elaborate!

Specifically,
first find the nearest UL office location in your area and call them, ask what will be expected of your project. Hint, if you don't know what a megger is, don't bother.
second, be ready to pay a minimum of $700+ for them to come out and certify your project.
third, be ready to pay them again to come back if you don't have everything ready for them on the first try.

Every UL guy I met was really easy to work with IF you know what your doing and don't waste their time. I speak from experience of being (in the past) a small time manufacturer of custom lighting of which some required UL certification. It helps to have an 'in', someone who has worked with UL techs and can recommend you as knowing what you're doing. UL will certify 'one off' projects or, for more $$$$ and time, a manufacturing process.

[Sunking]

Specifically,
first find the nearest UL office location in your area and call them, ask what will be expected of your project. Hint, if you don't know what a megger is, don't bother.
second, be ready to pay a minimum of $700+ for them to come out and certify your project.
third, be ready to pay them again to come back if you don't have everything ready for them on the first try.

My experience with UL is with Wire and Cable products but in every test required several units and each was destroyed with destructive testing. It cost us several thousand dollars for the certification, not to mention burning up thousands of dollars of product.

[tsupyo]

Specifically,
first find the nearest UL office location in your area and call them, ask what will be expected of your project.

Great Idea. Sometimes the obvious is so damn hard to find...

second, be ready to pay a minimum of $700+ for them to come out and certify your project.
third, be ready to pay them again to come back if you don't have everything ready for them on the first try.

I see where you are going, but I'm still at "first" so I'll see where that goes "first". I do appreciate the heads up to the cost.

Every UL guy I met was really easy to work with IF you know what your doing and don't waste their time. I speak from experience of being (in the past) a small time manufacturer of custom lighting of which some required UL certification. It helps to have an 'in', someone who has worked with UL techs and can recommend you as knowing what you're doing. UL will certify 'one off' projects or, for more $$$$ and time, a manufacturing process.

Ok, we'll see how this goes...again...your feedback is much appreciated.

My experience with UL is with Wire and Cable products but in every test required several units and each was destroyed with destructive testing. It cost us several thousand dollars for the certification, not to mention burning up thousands of dollars of product.

All of this I believe is not un-approachable, but a tad painful if I have to see some panels get destroyed...

[Sunking]

All of this I believe is not un-approachable, but a tad painful if I have to see some panels get destroyed...

Like I said in your other post, DIY panels are a Loose-Loose scenario. Sure you might be able to make them for a $1/watt, but you can buy commercial panels $1.25/watt. But after you spend the big bucks on UL, all your time, all you get is a panel that last a year or two and you are back where you started and end up paying a lot more money. With commercial all you do is write a check and you are done with a warranty. What is not to like about that?

As an licensed engineer I can sleep well at night with no worries knowing my A$$ is covered with a warm and fuzzy feeling. How about you?

[FloridaSun]

Great Idea. Sometimes the obvious is so damn hard to find...
I see where you are going, but I'm still at "first" so I'll see where that goes "first". I do appreciate the heads up to the cost.
Ok, we'll see how this goes...again...your feedback is much appreciated.
All of this I believe is not un-approachable, but a tad painful if I have to see some panels get destroyed...

Would be interesting for you to find out exactly what UL says about certifying home made panels so you could share here. It may not even be possible but if is would require using UL listed parts, wire, junction boxes, maybe even frames or they might want to take a few to their lab and do their torture tests like Sunking has experience with. Doubt they would certify anything with wood in it. Be ready with receipts and manufacturer specs on every part involved, even glass.
My work was simple. Using UL sockets, wire, etc and as long as wiring and structural integrity was good they approved. Could even get antique fixtures UL listed. Working in a UL fee wasn't a problem on a $20,000 commission for several lights in the same house and my buddy who got me into it even had clients that would pay the fee for ONE light.
Sounds un-approachable to me and I wouldn't even consider it. Panels are cheap compared to the time trouble and money it takes to build them and home made quality is iffy in the long term. Still, if you're into the effort and have the time then have at it and good luck to you.

[Naptown]

Great Idea. Sometimes the obvious is so damn hard to find...



I see where you are going, but I'm still at "first" so I'll see where that goes "first". I do appreciate the heads up to the cost.



Ok, we'll see how this goes...again...your feedback is much appreciated.



All of this I believe is not un-approachable, but a tad painful if I have to see some panels get destroyed...

Don't forget to add those costs into your cost per watt on the system

[tsupyo]

Like I said in your other post, DIY panels are a Loose-Loose scenario. Sure you might be able to make them for a $1/watt, but you can buy commercial panels $1.25/watt. But after you spend the big bucks on UL, all your time, all you get is a panel that last a year or two and you are back where you started and end up paying a lot more money. With commercial all you do is write a check and you are done with a warranty. What is not to like about that?

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that if DIY panels can be made and do not deteriorate after a year or two, and perhaps may even last longer than a commercially made panel (as is the case with most DIY made builds these days - I'm not referring to solar panels, but in general...) then I just might be on to something? Especially if the cost is say half?

As an licensed engineer I can sleep well at night with no worries knowing my A$$ is covered with a warm and fuzzy feeling. How about you?

Everything I build I can honestly say makes me sleep quite comfortably at night...

[tsupyo]

Sounds un-approachable to me and I wouldn't even consider it. Panels are cheap compared to the time trouble and money it takes to build them and home made quality is iffy in the long term. Still, if you're into the effort and have the time then have at it and good luck to you.

All I'm after is certification from some form of authority, which is recognizable by the local govt in home code compliance as well as any tax benefits from the federal govt. In anything one tries to start, you must baseline, so if UL is universally recognized as a certification then I need to know more about what they are and use as a method for certification. Regardless of anyones opinion, they must substantiate what they certify in some sort of repeatable method otherwise it is not a certification. More of an opinion...

[SunEagle]

All I'm after is certification from some form of authority, which is recognizable by the local govt in home code compliance as well as any tax benefits from the federal govt. In anything one tries to start, you must baseline, so if UL is universally recognized as a certification then I need to know more about what they are and use as a method for certification. Regardless of anyones opinion, they must substantiate what they certify in some sort of repeatable method otherwise it is not a certification. More of an opinion...

tsupyo

Interesting. We (some of us anyway) seem to be having this conversation concerning DIY panels and United Laboratories (UL) certification in two different threads with the same person.

Are you the manufacturing source of these metal solar cells and are you trying to find out what it takes to make them to sell to others? At least that is what some of your questions lead me to beleive.

[russ]

Methinks the poster needs to come up with a few more facts regarding plans and the cells or we can call BS on the entire concept.

[fireofenergy]

Don't use plastic!

Plastic has more heat expansion than glass but (not sure how much more), so glass is better. For 8" square solar lights, I get away with a glass/silicone/glass sandwich.
The little 10 watt China panel I bought years ago still looks new (after being left out in the snow and sun) and has the tough tempered glass with aluminum frame (don't buy the amorphius 15watt one, they degrade, as if it is some kind of "painted" PV coating). Ebay panels ARE cheaper than all the parts for diy (unless you can find all the parts cheaper than they are on ebay). The laser cut cells are tempting, though because they really are cheap, for making outdoors kinda bright auto lighting, as the led only needs like 8 cells (4v) for its LiFePO4 battery (and the pcb for battery).
If I could find cheap tempered glass and cheap aluminum, I would try making large panels that way, Oh, and whether to use two pieces of glass or one with that clear resin stuff (and all that extra time trying to keep air bubbles out, etc) but small homemade glass 4v and 6v panels are great.
Other than the small solar (light) panels, I do NOT have any experience other than countless hours of watching and reading about other's mistakes and successes (I don't even want to deal with that sticky resin stuff). I made a 36 cell, 10 watt panel out of those cheap ebay cells and it worked until the glass cracked (a year later) and moisture got in. From there, I think it went bad with the combination of the silicone and the moisture causing degradation to the solder joints.

Plastic and wood would warp, contract, expand and then let all kinds of moisture in.
Good luck

[tsupyo]

Interesting. We (some of us anyway) seem to be having this conversation concerning DIY panels and United Laboratories (UL) certification in two different threads with the same person.

I commented first in this thread not knowing there was an "Introduce Yourself Section", but in any case the other thread is where I introduced my self and explained what I was doing and I suppose more or less explained myself, more out of courtesy because frankly I dont really need to explain myself.

Are you the manufacturing source of these metal solar cells and are you trying to find out what it takes to make them to sell to others? At least that is what some of your questions lead me to beleive.

No...I'm as I have previously stated...a DIY trying to justify DIY methods to a crowd who (in some ways justifiably so with all of the frickin spam that surrounds everything these days) seems bent more on criticism and cynicism rather than actual discussion.

Methinks the poster needs to come up with a few more facts regarding plans and the cells or we can call BS on the entire concept.

No offense Russ, but what ever your opinion is, its irrelevent to my aggenda and project. I'm simply interested in facts so please contribute (or not) to the discussion.

Plastic has more heat expansion than glass but (not sure how much more), so glass is better. For 8" square solar lights, I get away with a glass/silicone/glass sandwich.

Excellent point FOF. My most recent trip to Home Depot yielded almost the same bit of intuition. The Glass/Glass "sandwich", from a cost perspective and from a durability perspective.

If I could find cheap tempered glass and cheap aluminum, I would try making large panels that way, Oh, and whether to use two pieces of glass or one with that clear resin stuff (and all that extra time trying to keep air bubbles out, etc) but small homemade glass 4v and 6v panels are great.

I live in a big city where materials are both abundant and fairly cost effective. I'm looking at all Aluminum manufacturers currently and I'm so far liking the priceing I'm finding. Nothing solid yet as to what I'm goiong to buy because I'm still guaging the hows and whys, but I definitely have a plan in mind.

From there, I think it went bad with the combination of the silicone and the moisture causing degradation to the solder joints.

Well, my experience with solder and the elements is that a good solid solder point which is protected (well enough) holds a pretty long time so all I can say is I'm confident in my sodlering skills.

Plastic and wood would warp, contract, expand and then let all kinds of moisture in. Good luck

Yeah, I'm trying hard to stay away from plastic and wood. It would appear that metal and glass are what stands up to the elements. Great points and I I emphatically agree with your quote.

[russ]

Located in Dallas, Texas? Ask Sunking about how to go about it.

Now for a little more about the magic cells you supposedly sourced - so far the blather runneth deep between you and free energy.

[Naptown]

Tsupyo
No offence but having been around here a while many of us have seen many many half baked ideas come across in the diy PV panel arena. So yes we are a bit skeptical. The interest in the cells you say you have that are metal are certainly intriguing as this is not the norm and sounds a lot like some technology that was tried and failed.