Are DIY Solar Panels Worth it?

[Mike90250]

If the cells are sealed in glass and silicone, would silica gel work "forever"?

I belive most common silicone (and epoxies) are permable to water vapor. Pretty slow rates, but still, it will get in. So, maybe, you can expect a couple of years.
Dual Glazed windows, have an average life of 5-10 years before the seals & bonding go bad, and they are factory made. It's really tough to seal something that goes thru the "Bake & Freeze" like a window or PV panel does

Perhaps bonding a 3" di stub of a pipe, to the air space of a panel, with a pipe cap, you would have a cavity, you can insert a bag of silica gel, and change it out every now and then?

[jestronix]

Some may find this article interesting http://www.dowcorning.com/content/pu...06-1023-01.pdf

The article (all be it stated by the makers of sylgard) mentions of some panels that were made in 1982 using sylgard, these are still pumping power out 25 years later. These were BP factory made panels, but they use a low tech method of encapsulation, one which us DIY can do at home. A 55w panel putting out 52 watts 25 years later its a good result. Surely if your a good at soldering your in business.

So there is hope and proven success of using low tech (sylgard) encapsulation for serious DIY power setups.

I know here in Australia you would be very hard pressed to find panels for the price I can make my own at, I know in the US you can find UL certified panels that match DIY.

I buy my cells from everbright solar in the US, they also make their own panels UL certified and very cheap http://www.everbrightsolar.net/sku20...lar201175.html

At the end of the day, I would never put my own home made panels on my roof and if I had the money I would buy a heap from the US and import them in.

However as I live in the country side and have lots of room, my panels will be separate from the house and isolated from fire risk. They are cheaper then any thing I could buy here and I dont mind the hours of soldering

If your in the US id have to say DIY is for fun really, as you can get UL cert panels.

But I dont think anyone can argue with that good feeling you get when you look over at your DIY panels, made buy you, making power for you

I think in the Next 10 years we are going to see Nanosolar pump out panels on the home market that will eat DIY prices.

[doctersnuggles]

My DIY solarpanels

I am very sorry to read the stories of people who think it is not possible to build your own solar panel AND keep it cheap !
The only thing with my panels is that the ultimate test is coming soon for my 8 panels totalling about 440 Wp. I am at the moment busy making a construction on my house to place and connect the panels to. And hopefully it will be not be within 5 years that I have to say : ok they do not last very long.... But perhaps that moment comes 15 Years from now.....and then I will say : I have succeeded !
Anyhow I am pretty confident that they will last over 5 years. And by that time they have paid themselves allmost fully back. The price : Euro 1,15 per Wp. (The cheapest panels I have seen sofar overhere in the Netherlands were E 1,80 per Wp. (note : If I use the factory specifications of my cells to calculate the Wp-value of my panel I will get a higher figure that will lower my Wp-price about 10%.....but I do not know the real Wp of my panels, I have no means of measuring that. So I call them a bit lower in Wp value)
Look at my websites : www.doctersnuggles.come2me.nl and www.doctersnuggles2.come2me.nl
Ofcourse I have done a long research. But I did find tempered glass for a very low price E 15 per sq meter. And I found solar cells from a solarcell-factory here in the Netherlands. They were their old cells(new but not sold for long,lying somewere on a shelf) , so I got them cheap. But I had to buy 1100 of them (about 2.5 Wp each) I have used 200 of them sofar in my 8 solar panels. And I will continue...........

Regards to all of you DIY-guys :- !!!!
Chris

[Jason]

I am very sorry to read the stories of people who think it is not possible to build your own solar panel AND keep it cheap !
The only thing with my panels is that the ultimate test is coming soon for my 8 panels totalling about 440 Wp. I am at the moment busy making a construction on my house to place and connect the panels to. And hopefully it will be not be within 5 years that I have to say : ok they do not last very long.... But perhaps that moment comes 15 Years from now.....and then I will say : I have succeeded !
Anyhow I am pretty confident that they will last over 5 years. And by that time they have paid themselves allmost fully back. The price : Euro 1,15 per Wp. (The cheapest panels I have seen sofar overhere in the Netherlands were E 1,80 per Wp. (note : If I use the factory specifications of my cells to calculate the Wp-value of my panel I will get a higher figure that will lower my Wp-price about 10%.....but I do not know the real Wp of my panels, I have no means of measuring that. So I call them a bit lower in Wp value)
Look at my websites : www.doctersnuggles.come2me.nl and www.doctersnuggles2.come2me.nl
Ofcourse I have done a long research. But I did find tempered glass for a very low price E 15 per sq meter. And I found solar cells from a solarcell-factory here in the Netherlands. They were their old cells(new but not sold for long,lying somewere on a shelf) , so I got them cheap. But I had to buy 1100 of them (about 2.5 Wp each) I have used 200 of them sofar in my 8 solar panels. And I will continue...........

Regards to all of you DIY-guys :- !!!!
Chris

Hi Chris, thanks for posting! I don't think its so much that people don't think it's not possible, the main concern is if it's economical. It just depends on the situation.

I'm glad to see you've had success with your panels...again thanks for the great detail on your websites.

[ecusolar]

Worth DIY Solar or not?

I have a small solar proyect (9 panels and I'll add 9 other now) running and it's DIY.

I made the panels by myself because I loved the challange and I can't get prices like in USA, if I would live there it would not be atractive to built them in DIY as you can get panels for about 1.70/W now and I believe that in the very near future they will be even much cheaper.
A 60W panel in Ecuador cost 300$, I was able to make them in 85$ and all of them generate 20 to 21V in noon sun.
The system isn't installed yet but I'm sure that all will work fine.

My panels are very similar to the ones of Chris and I used vacuum to avoid corrosion.

I don't care to much how long they will last, it can be 5 years maybe some more but I'm sure that in 5 years you can buy first class panels in the price of todays DIY so it will be easy to replace 'em if necesary.
I have an advantage that here you can connect DIY panels to the grid but the inverter have to qualified, the price of a grid KW/h is 0.12US$ but the goverment pay you 0.52 US$ for solar generated electric energy, make the calcs, it's a good biz.

[BilljustBill]

My panels are very similar to the ones of Chris and I used vacuum to avoid corrosion.

I'm interested in how you pulled a vacuum on your panels, can you share? How long will a vacuum last while operating in full sun and in months of high heat? If/when it fails, wouldn't it pull in moisture when it neutralizes the pressure?

Here in the U.S., some portable electric wire welders use Argon as a gas shield while they operate. Since it is easily and economically available, one idea I had was when it came time to seal a panel, allow for both a small, yet sealable, exit tube at the top of the panel and one on the opposite side at the bottom of the panel to insert the Argon. There would be no negative or positive pressure, but enough Argon gas to evacuate most of the gases, and humidity, that cause corrosion. Then, allow it to lay there in a neutral pressure as you seal the straw holes with the same PV sealant.

So, understanding your vaccum process and sealing steps would work if I tried my Argon idea.

Thanks, Bill

[ecusolar]

I like your idea of using argon and it's a gas which you find everywhere, I have to read about it's properties and wheight.

I used a medical needle (injections) which i passed through the silicon sealant and connected a borrowed vacuum pump to it in plain noon sun. Just with the panel heat at this hour will come out a huge ammount of air.
Once i finished i took off the needle, the micro hole was closed by the silicon pressure itself but I added some sealant to that space for security.

I think if we go deeper in that theme (and I'm interested in your idea and can it try as well) would be better if you open a thread to duscuss as it's off topic here I guess.

So, understanding your vaccum process and sealing steps would work if I tried my Argon idea.

Thanks, Bill

[Jason]

I think if we go deeper in that theme (and I'm interested in your idea and can it try as well) would be better if you open a thread to duscuss as it's off topic here I guess.

I agree...please do!

Thanks for posting ecusolar, welcome to solar panel talk.

Would you mind posting your project here at this forum? It would be greatly appreciated!

[ecusolar]

Thanks for the welcome Jason.

Also to Mike for maintening this board, I manage 3 forums (financial) and know how much work it can be.

BTW: I'm always wondering what's on Mike's BBQ.

Would it be ok if I copy the most important parts from the other forum to start up here?

I agree...please do!

Thanks for posting ecusolar, welcome to solar panel talk.

Would you mind posting your project here at this forum? It would be greatly appreciated!

[Jason]

Would it be ok if I copy the most important parts from the other forum to start up here?

You wrote it, so copy and paste away!

It would be great if you started it in another thread...I'd greatly appreciate it!


ps...this is what mike has on the grill... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-tip

[ecusolar]

Wow, that's delicious togehter with an ice cold Guinness, it's called punta de lomo here in EC.

I love BBQ, we will built a pizza oven (but can be used for whatever) soon as well.

ps...this is what mike has on the grill... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-tip

[Mike90250]

Mike here, with the tri-tips!

When you measure your panel voltage, without a load on it, you are measuring "Open Circuit" voltage. This is slightly higher than the best power producing voltage of the same panel. It takes a complicated machine to solve and display the "Peak Power" curve. The peak power amps are a little less the short circuit amps, just to complicate things.

You can get an idea of how it works, by reading the labels off several PV panels, and see how these all relate to each other.

And congratulation on making your panels, as you discovered, it's quite a chore.

As to moisture, it causes corrosion, and once the fine metal layer over the top of the cell corrodes, you loose contact, and your power drops. The more moisture, the faster it degrades.

Mike

[SolarGuyDIY]

DIY is great!

I'm on my eighth panel now (advertised 3x6 ~1.8w Evergreens). Although I'm not exactly off-grid, the panels are great for charging things that run off 12v batteries. I have a boat with an electric motor and when I dock it, I just hook it up to my 65wp panel and never worry that it runs out. Another one charges the pump in the filtration system of my artificial pond.

The point is that DIY is great if you're that kind of person that likes to put things together, but be careful when shopping online (especially eBay). Even if the cells are the same, how the seller organizes them in their store makes all the difference. Here is my assessment of eBay sellers I bought from -

rebeccayi0904 - packaging standard is OK (specially cut foam fits 3x6 cells in a small box, placed in Styrofoam peanuts, then big box) but total disregard when sorting different kinds. (Puts chipped with whole cells etc.) Bought from her once and I doubt ever again.

evergreen*world - once again packing OK, but not exactly professional grade (cells in white foam are placed in small flat rate priority boxes and then placed in Styrofoam peanuts. Sorts by cosmetic standards only with disregard to power. (found a lot 1.2wp and .8wp cells in listings advertised as 1.75wp)

eco_iq - so far the best packing I've seen (vacuum sealed between cardboard, surrounded by strips of foam in sturdy inner box, covered in peanuts and then big box). Sorts all cell by damage and power (all cells were 1.8 and the damage was exactly as described) I didn't buy their best-looking cells because I don't see a point in buying non-damaged cells that are the same power.

free*sun*power - judging from the packaging, this is the same seller as eco_iq. The only difference from what I can tell is eco_iq is the only the good stuff (cells connected in strings, A Grade, etc.) and free*sun*power is everything they have. (so if you want to see what eBay has to offer in regards to 3x6 cells, I suggest going here). I just got some cells they call "chipped" and although they don't look as good, the work better than the supposed "A-Grade" cells I got from evergreen*world. I put 'em up on my roof to supplement my ridiculously overpriced non-DIY panels and they work great.

fred480v - I bought 6x6 cells from this guy just to see if they're better in some way than 3x6, and let me just tell you that I wasted my time and money (and space). I could go into a long discussion why 3x6 is superior but I will just end it at his - in EVERY way.

Well that's it. I love my DIY!

[taylen24]

I don't know why people sneer at DIY's. Why should only the big manufacturers be the only people able to make and sell solar panels to only the weathly that can afford them? If the average joe puts something with quality materials in it and it gets UL listed, what is the problem with that person selling to others at a much lower price? Would a UL listing be enough for a person to make a business out of it?

I don't sneer at it, it's just that it's extremely difficult to create and get to produce at a high rate. If it could be made easily manufacturers would have already created a better version. It's like building a car. Anyone could build one with proper instructions and attention to detail, but would it perform at the same level as a BMW right off the bat? Would it have the safety features, the power, the guarantees, and any number of other factors. It's not that DIY isn't a great thing (it keeps manufacturers on their toes), it's just that it's extremely difficult to do. And, as mentioned before, there are many "DIY quick and cheap" scams out there trying to trick people to pay for something that will barely payoff in the long run (it's much more expensive than the $200 they advertise) to build yourself.

So I say, if you have the tools and the skills, go for it! More power to you (literally), but for quality and peace of mind, trained solar professionals with industry-approved products are usually the best bet.

[photovoltaik]

Great information.......Thank you very much!!......