Done with DIY solar

[rollandelliott]

There is obviously no copyright on a square or a circle because they are such simple extrusions. Like wise for aluminum rack profiles, nothing special about them and there are several companies using basically the same shape of aluminum extrusion for T slots and other similar applications. I'm not a lawyer, but common sense tells me you could not get sued for making your own aluminum, just like you can't sue me if I go to home depot, buy a $1 crown moulding sample, take it home and dig out my table top router and make some thing the same using my own tools.

As a photographer I know a little bit about copyright law. and I'd say the aluminum rack extrusions are so simple that they would not be copyrightable.

As far as a warranty...hmmm... it's aluminum are you really worried about it wearing out in 10 years?

but I've never worred about the sky falling either.

[rollandelliott]

you can do it!

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/pv.htm#Mounts

has many do it your self plans, the least expensive would be a treated lumber set up.

You can do it all, it's your property, just pay for the permit and have fun.

[russ]

Hi Billyjoe,

Take a look at http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/i...srp=1&state=NC

That is a site that lists incentives available. There are state and utility programs available and NC has net metering which is a positive thing. The utility has to deal with you.

You have to buy UL (or equivalent agency) certified equipment (DIY not allowed such as panels). All code requirements have to be followed. Connections almost certainly have to be made by an electrician.

Meaning you can probably do 90% yourself and an electrician buddy take credit for the connections. You saw in NABCEP Russ's post the rough cost breakdown. You can save a bundle.

Talk to the agencies involved about the permits and how to claim any federal/state rebates - incentives.

Take a look at a ground mount somewhere around you. With your shop equipment you can do that - no problem. As it is ground mount you don't have to worry about roof calculations or anything.

You are lucky to be in a state that allows people to do things still!

Russ

[russ]

As a photographer I know a little bit about copyright law. and I'd say the aluminum rack extrusions are so simple that they would not be copyrightable.

As far as a warranty...hmmm... it's aluminum are you really worried about it wearing out in 10 years?

but I've never worred about the sky falling either.

Rolland you have a fast keyboard - try thinking before using it sometimes. As an individual you can get away with most anything. A photo copyright and an engineering copyright are a bit difficult to compare.

As a business owner it gets more sticky. The companies that sell the racking kits have spent some time and money - they may have a different view.

The guarantee NABCEP Russ mentioned was the structural design guarantee - read the post again. It solves certain permitting problems.

Russ

[NABCEP Russ]

Also, it would be one thing for me to copy the extrusion for personal use. I could get in big trouble SELLING counterfeit racking to other people.

[Naptown]

So you would save maybe a few bucks on the rail extrusions. But what about the rest of the components to install? stuff like intermediate and end hold down clips? Are you going to bond each module individually or use a weeb washer or clip that is UL listed for the particular application and manufacturer. Remember No UL listing or approval and no insurance if something went wrong, and if inspections are needed you will be out of luck connecting that to the grid without UL or equal approvals. What about some of the specialty stainless hardware to make all the system work together? Others have brought up engineering and wind and snow loading which are all taken into account with an engineered racking system. I think if you thought it all the way through and all the possible things that could go wrong it would be less costly in the long run to purchase the proper equipment in the first place.

[old pipefitr]

old pipefitr

So you would save maybe a few bucks on the rail extrusions. But what about the rest of the components to install? stuff like intermediate and end hold down clips? Are you going to bond each module individually or use a weeb washer or clip that is UL listed for the particular application and manufacturer. Remember No UL listing or approval and no insurance if something went wrong, and if inspections are needed you will be out of luck connecting that to the grid without UL or equal approvals. What about some of the specialty stainless hardware to make all the system work together? Others have brought up engineering and wind and snow loading which are all taken into account with an engineered racking system. I think if you thought it all the way through and all the possible things that could go wrong it would be less costly in the long run to purchase the proper equipment in the first place.

I would never claim to know it all but I probably know a little more than the average person concerning UL's, insurance, codes, engineered systems, etc. Up until this point I am certified in 4 International Codes and what most people do not understand is the codes are the minimum rules and regulations that will make something work, not the maximum. So if you are building something to UL or Code specs, you are building it as cheap as possible to make it work. Knowing where and how to purchase material that will meet the specs you are talking about will not be a problem. I feel I am very fortunate to be able to find the answer to a question when I have a question. [/QUOTE]

[russ]

I would never claim to know it all but I probably know a little more than the average person concerning UL's, insurance, codes, engineered systems, etc. Up until this point I am certified in 4 International Codes and what most people do not understand is the codes are the minimum rules and regulations that will make something work, not the maximum. So if you are building something to UL or Code specs, you are building it as cheap as possible to make it work. Knowing where and how to purchase material that will meet the specs you are talking about will not be a problem. I feel I am very fortunate to be able to find the answer to a question when I have a question.

[/QUOTE]

Your statement is partially correct but very misleading. Try it without code and see what kind of a mess we would have. I have seen that around the world. The last thing we need anywhere is a bunch of fools making up their own standards.

Codes are what is considered by people in the industry as what is required for a type of work/equipment to be usable and lasting.

Things can cost far, far less if not built to code.

Things can be far, far more unsafe if not built to code.

Russ

[old pipefitr]

old pipefitr

Yep, definitely cheaper to buy it from a place like www.sunelec.com

$2.85 per watt for a turn key system.

What surprises me is that installers want to charge $7/watt for the whole thing.
that means they pocket $4.15 per watt.
Get a 4k system and that is over $16,000 in their pocket?!?

I dont' get it? why is a few days labor that expensive?

Better to get a turn key system and install the panels and wiring yourself and possibly hire an electrician for half a day to go over your system to make sure you hooked it up all right.


If you want to save on shipping perhaps we could order some panels together? Albemarle is only 1.5 hours away from Charlotte.

Peace, Rolland

Rolland, thanks for the info I plan to install my own panels under the supervision of an senior certified electrical inspector. I like you think time is a good thing when used properly to achieve a goal. I am not quite ready to start but it will be in the near future. Thanks again. [QUOTE]

[rollandelliott]

So you would save maybe a few bucks on the rail extrusions. But what about the rest of the components to install? stuff like intermediate and end hold down clips? Are you going to bond each module individually or use a weeb washer or clip that is UL listed for the particular application and manufacturer. Remember No UL listing or approval and no insurance if something went wrong, and if inspections are needed you will be out of luck connecting that to the grid without UL or equal approvals. What about some of the specialty stainless hardware to make all the system work together? Others have brought up engineering and wind and snow loading which are all taken into account with an engineered racking system. I think if you thought it all the way through and all the possible things that could go wrong it would be less costly in the long run to purchase the proper equipment in the first place.

I probably should not respond to this thread since I got nasty insults via PM last time, but ....

80/20 and eastern metal provide stress and load information on their products. A little home work will save $$$

[Mike90250]

... since I got nasty insults via PM last time, ..

If you get nasty insults, tell the mods, and we'll straighten the insulter out.

Ya'll can complain and say stuff, but insults, name calling, lineage dissing and stuff like that doesn't belong here. And if you have to resort to PM insults because you don't want everyone else to see what you are saying, that's so lame..