Building a series of panels from scratch. One for camping, the other for my home...

[thehandyman]

Hi,


So I have been contemplating this for some time. I recently ordered some solar cells, enough to make 27~ VDC @ about 80 watts. It will be three panels, 17" wide by 32" long.

I got the first arrival of cells, and they are monocrystaline. What surprised me is that they are actually slightly flexible, but I don't want to flex them too much. I was considering an extremely hard backing for them, but now I realize it might not need it.

Also I am trying to do this as cheaply as possible.

My questions are, what is a good, cheap backing?

It seems the most expensive part of the panel is the aluminum border. Is there any way around that?

As far as sealing the panels go, I realize there may be moisture trapped inside the panel, I do not know how to get rid of that. How hard is it to make a panel that I can take back apart, if something happens, so I do not have to scrap the entire thing?

I am also very wary of any glues in front of the cells. Because, glue exposed to sun becomes yellow. Also, some glues may appear clear, but they have UV blocking properties, that may inhibit the transmission of light into the individual cells. So it is probably good to have anything but glass in front of the cells.

However, how do I protect the individual cells? They are easily soiled and made dirty, so I want to protect them, but how?

Clear acrylic, or... what? Clear silicone?

[Sunking]

Actually you are making things more expensive by trying to make panels. You can buy manufactured panels for less than you can make them. One other thing is there is no code compliant way to use DIY panels on you home.

[thehandyman]

Actually you are making things more expensive by trying to make panels. You can buy manufactured panels for less than you can make them. One other thing is there is no code compliant way to use DIY panels on you home.

Thank you for that.

I cannot afford to buy the panels, even one at a time. I think buying 1KW or more of the cells, then putting them behind glass and sealed will be cheaper than buying the panes already assembled in any capacity but bulk. (Or for thousands of dollars at a time, which I don't have.)

Also, I live in a mobile home in the rural mountains, where there is no electricity. I am not sure if there is a code here, or if there is I will put them on a shed or over "there".

[russ]

I cannot afford to buy the panels, even one at a time.

You will find factory panels cheaper and far better than you can make. They have the equipment necessary and you don't.

[SunEagle]

Thank you for that.

I cannot afford to buy the panels, even one at a time. I think buying 1KW or more of the cells, then putting them behind glass and sealed will be cheaper than buying the panes already assembled in any capacity but bulk. (Or for thousands of dollars at a time, which I don't have.)

Also, I live in a mobile home in the rural mountains, where there is no electricity. I am not sure if there is a code here, or if there is I will put them on a shed or over "there".

Unfortunately you are finding that building your own pv panel is not easy or cheap. Moisture is a killer and you will not find out until sometime after you have made the panel that moisture is hurting it. Once panels are made and "sealed" with a backing like epoxy you will not be able to take them apart to "fix" them.

You have been led to believe you can easily wire those cells together and make a quality producing solar panel. While it has been done by others there is a high learning curve on what to do and what not to do in the process. Keep asking the questions and one of the DIY panel makes will give you some direction.

As for what russ and Sunking stated. In the end it will be less expensive to purchase a 200 watt manufactured quality panel (~ $1/watt) then to build 200 watts of panels from the parts.

[Sunking]

I cannot afford to buy the panels, even one at a time.

Well then you certainly cannot afford to build them since they are more expensive than manufactured panels.

[thehandyman]

Well then you certainly cannot afford to build them since they are more expensive than manufactured panels.

To build them to the ISO standards of manufactured panels, no, nobody can.

Then you might as well tell everyone who wants to make their own to not even try, because they are unable to achieve cleanroom like cleanliness, and ISO standard manufacturing practices.

Forget it. I want to try anyway.

I am hoping to get some tips, because I can build a quality producing panel. It might not be pretty, or nitrogen purged.

To start, what kind of adhesive I can use would be helpful. If I can encapsulate the cells in a type of flexible resin that does not dampen UV light, or any light, then I am on my way to making a durable panel no matter how else I decide to assemble it.

I take it there's no adverse reaction to encapsulating a tabbed cell in clear, flexible Silicone?

Does anyone know what type of resin is used in a manufactured panel, to protect the individual cells?

[russ]

To build them to the ISO standards of manufactured panels, no, nobody can.

Then you might as well tell everyone who wants to make their own to not even try, because they are unable to achieve cleanroom like cleanliness, and ISO standard manufacturing practices. Nope - very few can make carry out the manufacturing process well and even fewer seal the finished panel where is will last.

Forget it. I want to try anyway. Have fun

I am hoping to get some tips, because I can build a quality producing panel. It might not be pretty, or nitrogen purged. Nitrogen purged? Forget it

To start, what kind of adhesive I can use would be helpful. If I can encapsulate the cells in a type of flexible resin that does not dampen UV light, or any light, then I am on my way to making a durable panel no matter how else I decide to assemble it. There are threads here with that kind of information in them

I take it there's no adverse reaction to encapsulating a tabbed cell in clear, flexible Silicone? Yep - that is about the last thing you want to use

Does anyone know what type of resin is used in a manufactured panel, to protect the individual cells?

Again, look at old posts in the DIY section - What people are trying to say is that you can not buy the components as cheap as you can a completed panel -

[Mike90250]

Sadly, there is no easy way to DIY a PV panel. Building one for fun, experience is great. But for serious power production, it's going to fail rather quickly (less than 2 years, a little more if you are in a desert).

Moisture build-up is the main killer. Glass is water vapor proof. Good rolled metal is pretty tight too. But glues, epoxy, paint, all leaks water vapor, and it builds up inside the panels as heat cycles suck air in and out of the panel.

And getting useable cells/wafers is tough. Anything off fleabay is really factory rejects. The factories test for a couple dozen failure modes, and consumers can only test about 3 of those parameters: (volts, amps & thermal heating from reverse leakage - if you have an IR camera).

In the DIY section, is a link to instructions hosted by fieldline forums, that's the best DIY system I've seen.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?3526-DIY-Eva-solar-panel-build

you still need EVA and tedlar, special designed plastics, to block water vapor.

And every cell you have flexed, you have to re-anneal to remove the micro cracks you caused.

[thehandyman]

Again, look at old posts in the DIY section - What people are trying to say is that you can not buy the components as cheap as you can a completed panel -

Bear with me, here.

http://www.altestore.com/store/Solar-Panels/altE-Poly-200-Watt-24V-Solar-Panel/p10356/?gclid=CjwKEAjw2reiBRCaobK3udOj-Q4SJACXWyYmNVbqEqu2fCcZaZ1_MKAfg4zI3qD6tDQTqZgGuk6pAhoC9SLw_wcB

200 watt solar panel. It's on sale for $260.63.

Here are 200 watts of solar cells, tabbed wire, flux pen, free shipping, $100.00.

I can't buy a small sheet of glass, an aluminum border, a substrate backing, and epoxy for $160?

Let's say I save up $400.00. That's 800 watts of cells.

If I can successfully treat the cells with something, and keep them waterproof, then all I have to do is to is place them inside of a structure that will protect them.

What you are saying is correct if I were to buy panels a thousand watts at a time, then there's not much I can do to match the cost. But the issue is, I cannot *buy* panels at 1,000 watts a piece, or 2,000 watts.

What I am asking for is help building my own panels. I will check out the other threads about the epoxies.

[Sunking]

Bear with me, here.

http://www.altestore.com/store/Solar-Panels/altE-Poly-200-Watt-24V-Solar-Panel/p10356/?gclid=CjwKEAjw2reiBRCaobK3udOj-Q4SJACXWyYmNVbqEqu2fCcZaZ1_MKAfg4zI3qD6tDQTqZgGuk6pAhoC9SLw_wcB

200 watt solar panel. It's on sale for $260.63.

Here are 200 watts of solar cells, tabbed wire, flux pen, free shipping, $100.00.

I can't buy a small sheet of glass, an aluminum border, a substrate backing, and epoxy for $160?

Let's say I save up $400.00. That's 800 watts of cells.

If I can successfully treat the cells with something, and keep them waterproof, then all I have to do is to is place them inside of a structure that will protect them.

What you are saying is correct if I were to buy panels a thousand watts at a time, then there's not much I can do to match the cost. But the issue is, I cannot *buy* panels at 1,000 watts a piece, or 2,000 watts.

What I am asking for is help building my own panels. I will check out the other threads about the epoxies.

Handyman all we can say to you then there is no better teacher than loosing your money. So go spend your money and learn the hard way. You have had 5 pros tel you that you cannot build a panel for less than you can buy them. You don't want to believe us, fine we will sell you all the piece parts now to make your panels and make more money that way. Later we pluck you again after your panels fail and replace them with less expensive manufactured panels later. Have it your way we win either way. All you have to decide is do you want to pay us twice or one time.

No one says you have to buy 1000 watts of panels at a time, start with a 100 to 200 watt panel. But be warned you cannot use homemade panels on your home, that will get you into serious trouble.

[SunEagle]

Bear with me, here.

http://www.altestore.com/store/Solar-Panels/altE-Poly-200-Watt-24V-Solar-Panel/p10356/?gclid=CjwKEAjw2reiBRCaobK3udOj-Q4SJACXWyYmNVbqEqu2fCcZaZ1_MKAfg4zI3qD6tDQTqZgGuk6pAhoC9SLw_wcB

200 watt solar panel. It's on sale for $260.63.

Here are 200 watts of solar cells, tabbed wire, flux pen, free shipping, $100.00.

I can't buy a small sheet of glass, an aluminum border, a substrate backing, and epoxy for $160?

Let's say I save up $400.00. That's 800 watts of cells.

If I can successfully treat the cells with something, and keep them waterproof, then all I have to do is to is place them inside of a structure that will protect them.

What you are saying is correct if I were to buy panels a thousand watts at a time, then there's not much I can do to match the cost. But the issue is, I cannot *buy* panels at 1,000 watts a piece, or 2,000 watts.

What I am asking for is help building my own panels. I will check out the other threads about the epoxies.

I understand you can't afford to purchase a lot of manufactured panels. But you should begin to understand that building your own solar panel is not cheap either. Sure those cells, glass, frames and maybe epoxy may not be expensive but without knowing exactly what you need (based on your questions). Even if you get all your questions answered you will end up making mistakes and throwing away materials. There are plenty of stories in the DIY area listing what those mistakes are and how much material is wasted. If you are lucky maybe 25% of what you purchase will turn into a usable short life solar panel.

All we are trying to say is not get too deep into the DIY because while it may be fun and educational to build your own pv panel it is not cheap to do and will end up spending way more than what you thought it would. If you are concerned about money then don't go down the path thinking DIY is less expensive.

[Sunking]

If you are concerned about money then don't go down the path thinking DIY is less expensive.

To add to that if money is a concern and you plan operating on Solar battery, you have no biz thinking about solar because the electricity will cost you many times more than what you can buy it from the power company.

[thehandyman]

To add to that if money is a concern and you plan operating on Solar battery, you have no biz thinking about solar because the electricity will cost you many times more than what you can buy it from the power company.

As I said, I am nowhere near utilities (electricity, water, sewer...) where my property is at.

I thank everyone for their input, but when people tell me something cannot be done, I tend to try anyway, rather than sitting down and giving up. If I lose money I lose money, but I will learn a heck of a lot more than if I just sat back and never tried to begin with.

[thehandyman]

Sadly, there is no easy way to DIY a PV panel. Building one for fun, experience is great. But for serious power production, it's going to fail rather quickly (less than 2 years, a little more if you are in a desert).

Moisture build-up is the main killer. Glass is water vapor proof. Good rolled metal is pretty tight too. But glues, epoxy, paint, all leaks water vapor, and it builds up inside the panels as heat cycles suck air in and out of the panel.

And getting useable cells/wafers is tough. Anything off fleabay is really factory rejects. The factories test for a couple dozen failure modes, and consumers can only test about 3 of those parameters: (volts, amps & thermal heating from reverse leakage - if you have an IR camera).

In the DIY section, is a link to instructions hosted by fieldline forums, that's the best DIY system I've seen.

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?3526-DIY-Eva-solar-panel-build

you still need EVA and tedlar, special designed plastics, to block water vapor.

And every cell you have flexed, you have to re-anneal to remove the micro cracks you caused.

Thank you! This is exactly what I need.