Building a comprehensive Solar Panels installation guide

[russ]

Quite frankly, if a DİYer needs a guide to install panels on his roof he should not be doing it. Like Mike and Sunking pointed out the additioanl load on the roof needs to be engineered not swaged (scientific wild a**ed guess).

[sungodra]

Well this thread has been pretty instructional.

Based on the things stated so far I would appreciate if all of you consider the following overview statements:
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If I have enough money I should buy the panels and hire a contractor to take care of everything. Specially if I'm on one of the US areas that are giving nice incentives.

If I really don't have that much money and have good experience in building things /electricity I could save money with either 1 or more of the following:
- DIY Panels
- Installing Panels myself

This last point is what has raised heat on this thread and I would want to consider the following general conisderations on how this could be done:

- You could check the best position for the panels and accurate expected efficiency by renting a Solar Pathfinder - it can be done for about 25$ a week

- The information required for adquiring a building permit on most cities can be found here: http://www.dsireusa.org/
e.g.

- Then - if you're not an engineer yourself or have the necessary knowledge- you can hire an engineer to help you with plans, etc.

- Then you can make the mounting installation yourself, making sure to seal everything ok, etc.

- At last, if you have not expert experience on electrical installation you could hire an electrician to connect the system to the grid. If you do have the experience, you can do it yourself.
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Looking forward to read your opinions!

[Sunking]

If I really don't have that much money and have good experience in building things /electricity I could save money with either 1 or more of the following:
- DIY Panels
- Installing Panels myself

OK here are some of the problems with your assumptions:

If this is grid tied or you have a loan on your home, you cannot build DIY panels, they have to be listed with a testing agency like UL You cannot build a UL tested panels to pass inspection and accepted by your insurance policy holder.

In some area like Arkansas where standards and public safety are of no concern and you own your home, you might be allowed to do some of the work like mount the panels to your roof at your own risk. But the Electric company is not going to hook you up unless you jump through all the hoops and paper work.

- Then - if you're not an engineer yourself or have the necessary knowledge- you can hire an engineer to help you with plans, etc.

Well as a PE who has signature authority I say you are mistaken. I will charge for my services, do all my own work and only sign off when I see the contractors permits and can trust. I would never put my name on the line for a DIY. I didn't go to school for 6 year, go through 5 years of under direct support after school, and 30 years of experience to let you put me out of biz

- Then you can make the mounting installation yourself, making sure to seal everything ok, etc.

Again where is your load and structural analyst and authority (license from th estate issuing the permit) to do so. Any illegal alien can do the work but only after certification, approved plans, permit, and final inspection. Each location has different qualifications.

- At last, if you have not expert experience on electrical installation you could hire an electrician to connect the system to the grid. If you do have the experience, you can do it yourself.

No you have to be licensed or have a licensed electrician willing to sign off on the project. Most I know will charge the homeowner more if they help or do any of the work as it only means more work and risk for them to fix what you do.

Granted there are some areas where you can pull the permits and do the work yourself, but those are mostly rural areas with very low standards and your insurance policy holder will allow you to do so. That is a rare combination.

Lastly if you cannot afford your electric bill, pay cash to have a solar system installed, then you cannot afford solar even if you DIY. For a grid tied system you have to pay 10 to 30 years for electricity in advance with cash, or be willing to pay at least 10 times more for electricity the rest of your life for an off-grid battery system which never pays off in most cases.

[sungodra]

@sunking
You are basically saying that if you want to have solar panels installed and running - unless you are in a rural area or similar- you have to pay someone to take care of every step of the installation process.
And you can't save money by making anything by yourself, not even if you are an engineer, or hire one to take care of some crucial parts of the process.

Everyone agrees with this?

[Sunking]

sunking
You are basically saying that if you want to have solar panels installed and running - unless you are in a rural area or similar- you have to pay someone to take care of every step of the installation process.

No I am saying each jurisdiction has its own codes and regulations which you or anyone else cannot possible cover in a How To Manual. The only way to know is real simple, check with your local building code enforcement agency. In Chicago you are required to use union labor for every aspect of the project from the delivery man to finale inspection and all maintenance thereafter. Other jurisdictions may allow you do do some or all of the work providing it can pass inspections.

I can tell you for certain if the system will be grid tied in any location the panels will and all other components of the system will have to be manufactured and listed. such as UL or another recognized testing agency.

Whether we like it or not there is more to risk than your property or life. The systems effect everyone around you like property values, emergency personnel, and risk of life.

[sungodra]

No I am saying each jurisdiction has its own codes and regulations which you or anyone else cannot possible cover in a How To Manual. The only way to know is real simple, check with your local building code enforcement agency. In Chicago you are required to use union labor for every aspect of the project from the delivery man to finale inspection and all maintenance thereafter. Other jurisdictions may allow you do do some or all of the work providing it can pass inspections.

I can tell you for certain if the system will be grid tied in any location the panels will and all other components of the system will have to be manufactured and listed. such as UL or another recognized testing agency.

Whether we like it or not there is more to risk than your property or life. The systems effect everyone around you like property values, emergency personnel, and risk of life.

I understand now the importance of checking with the local building code. And my questions on this forum were aimed to check exactly how useful and deep could a How To guide be.
Right now it seems I will not be entering much details for Grid Tied systems.

I will make a new thread when the first version of my site - that will include much more information than just this guide- is online.

Thanks for your contribution!

[MarineLiner]

Feel can't wait longer

... when the first version of my site - that will include much more information than just this guide- is online.

[Mike90250]

@sunking
You are basically saying that if you want to have solar panels installed and running - unless you are in a rural area or similar- you have to pay someone to take care of every step of the installation process.
And you can't save money by making anything by yourself, not even if you are an engineer, or hire one to take care of some crucial parts of the process.

Everyone agrees with this?

Not 100%
I'm a home owner, and hired a roofer to re-shingle, and Real Goods to install the solar, and had to submit my original plans to the building department to satisfy the roof could take the weight. If I did not have the plans on hand, I would have had to hire an engineer to draw up plans and certify them.
If you hire contractors that know their business, and set a strict payment schedule, where they get paid at each inspection point, it goes pretty well.
Mike

[russ]

When the DİY type who also happens to be a tradesman, engineer or other who has learned the necessary skills and has a license where required then anything is possible.

For the other 99% plus a professional installation is normally the cheaper, cleaner and safer option.

Handling electricity is like many other potentially dangerous materials - do it right following the rules and all is well. Do it wrong and big problems - burn your house (or that of your buddy) down or electrocute someone in the case of solar PV.

The role of the inspector is often totally inadequately carried out and should not be relied on. The installation needs to be done 100% correct. Granted, often there is more than one correct way to do most anything.

[sungodra]

While investigating I came accross with this text on DSIRE site, this is for Utah:

"System must be in compliance with all applicable performance and safety standards; must obtain certification from the State Energy Program; individuals who wish to design their own system may be exempt from certain system requirements."
( http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/i...id=1&ee=1&re=1 )

So it seems DIY design and installation is considered in some places.

However, I understood from this thred that it should not be taken lightly.

[Morris]

Hi All,

I am building a site about Solar Power - I have a very important domain registered- and I'm working on two free tools that could be very useful to the solar power community.
1- A free and easy to use tool to determine how much power could be generated from a particular location in the US... I have found similar tools online, - on NREL for instance- but none of them seem to be really accurate / easy to use.

In Regards to an easy to use tool check out the widget on http://www.globalsolarcenter.com/

If you go to the "Solar Calculator" tab you can find instructions on how to add the widget to your site and even be able to earn some money in the process...

[crxvfr]

In Regards to an easy to use tool check out the widget on http://www.globalsolarcenter.com/

If you go to the "Solar Calculator" tab you can find instructions on how to add the widget to your site and even be able to earn some money in the process...

I like the integration of google maps but I didn't want to give up my email and contact information to use it.

Lots of people are talking about loads. How much do these things weigh? Seems to me a good snow would make doing calculations for solar panel weight seem a bit silly. Snow is much heavier than solar panels, right? I understand it would be snow and solar panels, but again, seems snow is so much heavier that it would make the weight of solar panels negligible? I wouldn't want to walk on the roof where the weight of solar panels would be that close to questionable.

I thought mine are kind of heavy because they are all tempered glass at 33lbs 26x48. I live in a rural area and I'm going to cover a carport with them. They'll be supported by 2x6 stringers so that should be good. They are UL CE whatever. My equipment will pass, but I don't want to hook to the grid because of all that fuss.

When the DİY type who also happens to be a tradesman, engineer or other who has learned the necessary skills and has a license where required then anything is possible.

Handling electricity.....

The role of the inspector is often totally inadequately carried out and should not be relied on. The installation needs to be done 100% correct. Granted, often there is more than one correct way to do most anything.

I agree completely, but how do you know the role of the inspector is often totally inadequately carried out. It says you are in Turkey. Is this a universal truth? My dad was a journeyman electrician, and both my brothers, in the IBEW. It all sounds legit the way they explain to be official and everything, but there is lots of politics thru and thru. I was in myself for about a year, and for longer than that I was getting official documents about a lawsuit, trial for mis-appropriations of funds by my employer. This job was at a housing project. It was a government contract. Renovated hundreds of units that were torn down before the suit was ever over. It's crazy, but yeah, best to do things right and stay on the good side of locality.

[Mike90250]

The inspector that looked at my system, did not even want to climb a ladder, just pay the fee, he signs the paper. The quality of the inspectors you get vary.