Cheap methods of encapsulating?

[russ]

I know that beer enhances the flow of one type of water!

[chp]

Has anyone tried the Thru the Roof method of encapsultion using plexi for the front. I want to use 1/4" UV stabilized plexi for its lighter weight. I'm building a 60 watt panel for my sailboat and want the lighter weight. Going to use Sylgard for this one, but will be building a second one eventually. The encapsulant seems to really drive the cost up of building your own.

[russ]

Hi chp - Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

Some of our DIY types should be along soon - they have been through this question from all sides!

Russ

[hank]

Short update

Has anyone tried the Thru the Roof method of encapsultion using plexi for the front...

I think the first dude who was posting about his project in here used plexi - read back a few pages in this thread. I used glass. It is heavy, so that's probably a no-go for you if you want it to weigh less than 10lb/panel.

A quick update - we've had some nice cold weather here lately - 11F this morning in Maryland, 66% humidity! I left the panels outside in the shed all night, and all day today, after it warmed back up to the 30's (F). Panels are fine - cells are intact and I don't see any signs of warping from the cold! The Through the Roof has cured out perfectly clear still and isn't tacky on the back anymore. The parts where I poured it around the edges of the cells have a nice layer of what feels like clear rubber over them - it's quite nice, actually. It's definitely stickier and harder than clear silicone, and much more clear when dried.

Now that they're cured, I'm probably going to put some dessicant in there, seal it all up with silicone and plywood, and mount on the roof on standoffs. I'll post pictures once this is all complete. I'm probably going to buy the Swea grid-tie inverter kit - anyone have any experience with that? I'll search around the forum. Cheers, and happy Chinese New Year!

Update:

Also, I had the panels out in full sun on Saturday, and hooked them together in series (48 0.5V 1.75W cells total). I got over 27V! I don't have any power resistors or anything to load it right now, so current testing can come later, but I was really happy about the voltage. It should only be 24V. Does anyone know if this is an indicator of proper light transmittal through the glass or if current is the real indicator?

Also, DO NOT BUY POWERJACK (POWER JACK) GRID TIE INVERTERS. I received one from them, and it didn't work the first time I plugged it in. It seems like their MO is send out anything, and force the customer to buy parts to fix it on receipt. If they don't refund me soon, I'll be issuing bad feedback on eBay. At least I have that going for me. Also, they're probably never going to be UL approved, and with this kind of quality control, I'm glad. The Sweas look like they have a lot better chance of being approved, especially since they're approved for European use. It's just a matter of time - they're UL pending. And I'm just doing this to experiment, not as a permanent system.

[Solarphobic]

Solarphobe

I think the first dude who was posting about his project in here used plexi - read back a few pages in this thread. I used glass. It is heavy, so that's probably a no-go for you if you want it to weigh less than 10lb/panel.

A quick update - we've had some nice cold weather here lately - 11F this morning in Maryland, 66% humidity! I left the panels outside in the shed all night, and all day today, after it warmed back up to the 30's (F). Panels are fine - cells are intact and I don't see any signs of warping from the cold! The Through the Roof has cured out perfectly clear still and isn't tacky on the back anymore. The parts where I poured it around the edges of the cells have a nice layer of what feels like clear rubber over them - it's quite nice, actually. It's definitely stickier and harder than clear silicone, and much more clear when dried.

Now that they're cured, I'm probably going to put some dessicant in there, seal it all up with silicone and plywood, and mount on the roof on standoffs. I'll post pictures once this is all complete. I'm probably going to buy the Swea grid-tie inverter kit - anyone have any experience with that? I'll search around the forum. Cheers, and happy Chinese New Year!

Update:

Also, I had the panels out in full sun on Saturday, and hooked them together in series (48 0.5V 1.75W cells total). I got over 27V! I don't have any power resistors or anything to load it right now, so current testing can come later, but I was really happy about the voltage. It should only be 24V. Does anyone know if this is an indicator of proper light transmittal through the glass or if current is the real indicator?

Also, DO NOT BUY POWERJACK (POWER JACK) GRID TIE INVERTERS. I received one from them, and it didn't work the first time I plugged it in. It seems like their MO is send out anything, and force the customer to buy parts to fix it on receipt. If they don't refund me soon, I'll be issuing bad feedback on eBay. At least I have that going for me. Also, they're probably never going to be UL approved, and with this kind of quality control, I'm glad. The Sweas look like they have a lot better chance of being approved, especially since they're approved for European use. It's just a matter of time - they're UL pending. And I'm just doing this to experiment, not as a permanent system.

Hi Hank
I've had some experience with Powerjack. I bought two and had trouble with both. The first one was replaced free of charge, however I had to pay the return postage to China. The second one failed and I found that the power cord was the cause. The cords are very cheap, made of 24 gage wire which is prone to internal connection failures. So now both are working fine. I also bought a failed SWEA on e-bay. After replacing four mosfets it now works great. Probably a good product. Another brand I have had good luck with is Grid Force. And I think a company in Calif. (ML Solar) carries a good brand and stands behind it. They can be obtained on e-bay. However, none of these products will ever be UL1741 approved for many reasons. They are not weather tight and would be a hazard in the rain, and they do not sense when the grid goes down in a way which meets UL1741 requirements, for example.

Solarphobe

[Solarphobic]

Solarphobe

Has anyone tried the Thru the Roof method of encapsultion using plexi for the front. I want to use 1/4" UV stabilized plexi for its lighter weight. I'm building a 60 watt panel for my sailboat and want the lighter weight. Going to use Sylgard for this one, but will be building a second one eventually. The encapsulant seems to really drive the cost up of building your own.

Hi CHP
I share your dismay at the cost of Sylgard. I've used the Liquid Nails product Clear Seal, which is probably quite similar to Thru The Roof. For about $11 I can encapsulate a 36 cell panel. I dilute it with mineral spirits almost 50/50 by weight. Sylgard cures chemically while Clear Seal cures by evaporation of the solvents, so Clear Seal it is not for the DIY'er who is impatient. It can easily take a week to dry sufficiently, and pouring technique is important to avoid bubbles under the cells. I usually apply a second coat several days after the first coat to thoroughly weatherproof the cells.

Solarphobe

[santhony]

Plexiglass Issues

Thanks for the updates on the encapsulations.

I did have a small piece of plexi laying around so I mounted up about 6 cells just to see how they would hold up on the plexi alone.. Within the first 15 mins of being outside the plexi must of flexed enough to crack one of the cells.. I can definetly see the plexi change shape due to the heat. Again tho, this was just a cheap peice of plexi that i had bought from Home Depot.

I do have about 6 panels(36 Cells ea.), mounted on glass that are awaiting encapsulation, based on your inputs.

Thanks!

[hank]

Hi Hank
However, none of these products will ever be UL1741 approved for many reasons. They are not weather tight and would be a hazard in the rain, and they do not sense when the grid goes down in a way which meets UL1741 requirements, for example.

Thanks Solarphobic. It's good to hear I'm not the only one having trouble with the Power Jack. I've been corresponding with Marcel from SWEA, and he tells me they're getting very close to UL approval for their inverters.

[QUOTE]The ul software is ready and we

[hank]

Thanks for the updates on the encapsulations.
Within the first 15 mins of being outside the plexi must of flexed enough to crack one of the cells..

Ouch sorry to hear that! You should have better luck with the glass - what are the temperatures you're dealing with?

[santhony]

Ouch sorry to hear that! You should have better luck with the glass - what are the temperatures you're dealing with?

I'm in Raleigh NC, so the temperatures here can vary in the winter, but generally mild.

The day that I placed that test panel outside it was about 50 degress.. It really surprised me that the plexi shifted that fast. But it was good to learn it the way I did...

I still have that panel outside, it's been thru a few rainstorms, winds cold and warm weather swings. It's only been about three weeks now, they are holding up fine and continue to light an LED pack with rechargeable batteries.

I recently purchased a PowerJack GTI 300, seems to work ok... The power chord that comes with it is no longer removable as the standard PC cables are. It is hardwired. I wonder if that was causing some of the issues?

[chp]

A few questions about the plexi you used. Did you have it mounted in a frame. I plan to mount mine in an aluminum frame. Also how thick was the plexi. I'm using 1/4 inch. This should reduce warping and flexing of the plexi. In canada I have not been able to find thru the roof or the liquid nails clear seal, however we do have a product for roofing which is an elasometric clear acrylic. It is also mineral spirit based, stays flexable and is clear. When the time comes I will try this and see how it works.
Now that my Sylgard has arrived I will be finishing my first panel. I am going to vaccuum bag it to try to remove the air bubbles.

[hank]

50 degrees is warm! Glad I didn't try to use plexiglass and just went for the windows from surplus.

I have no idea how well acrylic would fare. But my guess is that it wouldn't warp as bad as plexiglass does.

[electricsuperduty]

It's not oxygen, it's moisture, and moisture absorbing flux residue. Add light, moisture, and you get "electro-migration", electrolysis, and all sorts of nasties that kill the cells.

wash soldered cells in IPA, triple rinse in IPA, and then seal - but with a water VAPOR resistant seal. Plastics, paints and epoxies are NOT water vapor tight, it blows right through them. Glass, suitably thick metals, engineered plastics (eva, tedlar) are.

* IPA isopropyl alcohol

Washing your cells in this turns them yukkie greenish, what Iam I not doing correctly?
Actually i just used a Q tip dipped in IPA to see if it would remove flux( did not remove) but I can see where I whiped it, that is the yukkie looking cell.

[electricsuperduty]

I have made 6 solar panels like I said and have not had any trouble with them at all.

Put your cells on top of the glass = put sylgard ontop of this and it will hold to the glass and the cells. The thing wrong about tape is it will crack with heat the panel will make , and it will fail in the long run. You have to have tape that will take the heat andweather like Kapton tape.

I cannot get the sylgard to run under the cell, I always have air pockets. Are you thinning the sylgard down.....with what?

[electricsuperduty]

It's not oxygen, it's moisture, and moisture absorbing flux residue. Add light, moisture, and you get "electro-migration", electrolysis, and all sorts of nasties that kill the cells.

wash soldered cells in IPA, triple rinse in IPA, and then seal - but with a water VAPOR resistant seal. Plastics, paints and epoxies are NOT water vapor tight, it blows right through them. Glass, suitably thick metals, engineered plastics (eva, tedlar) are.

* IPA isopropyl alcohol

Mike, Whenever I try to take the flux off with the IPA, the cells get discolored. Is this going to eventually change back to normal. I would think the IPA would evaporate quickly and the cell would turn back to its natural blue color.