Should I assume a solar lease?

[ernie24]

Hello everyone! I am brand new and here is my situation. We are in escrow to buy a home in Carlsbad, CA moving from Yorba Linda CA. The new home has solar and it turns out its on a lease - so I am skeptical. Looks like a standard SunPower lease and there are 19 more years left. The system is SPR-327NE-WHT-D with inverter SPR-10001f-240. Max rated at 11.45 kW-DC. Not sure what the AC output is. $268/mo lease with no increasing payments.

In Yorba Linda we averaged 1040 kWh/mo which at SDG&E prices is approx. $273/mo. The Carlsbad home is larger (by 50%) and both homes have the same size pool and similar appliances, etc. The YL home had one energy-gulping AC that we often used as it gets hot there. The Carlsbad home has dual-zone AC and its much closer to the ocean on a hill - so maybe we don't need the AC very much?

The seller uses an average of 1622 kWh/mo with an avg bill of $482 so he saves $ with that system. The seller either couldn't or won't negotiate a buyout of the lease so he wants us to assume it, so I value your input. Moving it to the seller's next home is apparently not an option.

[Alisobob]

$268 x 12 months x 19 years is $61,104.

To buy a 11k system outright is about $44,000 - Minus the 30% rebate = $31k.

Why would you even consider paying double?

[ernie24]

Thanks - I was not sure how much an 11K system would cost to buy. If the inverter is good for 10 years, do you know what the replacement cost is currently? Also, the seller may be willing to subsidize our assumption of the lease - so perhaps a $30K payment from the seller would even things out?

[HX_Guy]

$268 x 12 months x 19 years is $61,104.

To buy a 11k system outright is about $44,000 - Minus the 30% rebate = $31k.

Why would you even consider paying double?

Not everyone has that option though (to dish out the cash or to maybe even be able to use the solar tax credit).

This is the way I'd look at it...

Is the lease payment + the electric payment lower than what the electric payment would be on it's own? If yes, then why not? You're not paying anything out of pocket and you have a lower bill. There is no downside really. Sure there could be more benefits if you actually bought the system..but are you likely to do something like that?

[gvl]

Thanks - I was not sure how much an 11K system would cost to buy. If the inverter is good for 10 years, do you know what the replacement cost is currently? Also, the seller may be willing to subsidize our assumption of the lease - so perhaps a $30K payment from the seller would even things out?

About $3 per watt for a 11kW DC system with a string inverter is not too unrealistic, so $33,000 and that is before the rebate/tax credit. Any idea why the current owner's usage is higher than you estimate for yourself?

[ernie24]

I have no idea why the current owners usage is so high altho there's TV's everywhere, lots of electronics, looks like he works from home, lots of computers, etc. Post-solar his bills avg. $73/mo so I assume the system is putting out a fair amount of electricity. My wife and I are on the fence. We really like the house. Our original plan was to buy a house without solar - gauge our usage - and then dive in next year and purchase a system outright with leftover $ from the sale of our YL home.

[gvl]

I have no idea why the current owners usage is so high altho there's TV's everywhere, lots of electronics, looks like he works from home, lots of computers, etc. Post-solar his bills avg. $73/mo so I assume the system is putting out a fair amount of electricity. My wife and I are on the fence. We really like the house. Our original plan was to buy a house without solar - gauge our usage - and then dive in next year and purchase a system outright with leftover $ from the sale of our YL home.

How long it took you to find the house that you like? Are you comfortable to start the search over again if you walk away? Are you driving a lot? If so you may be able to utilize excess generation and save money on gas by driving an EV.

[thejq]

The reason he doesn't want to ask for a buyout cost is that he doesn't want to subsidize it. If you're already in escrow, you have the upper hand. If the solar panel lease was not written into the purchase agreement, you have no obligation to take over the lease. The lease is attached to the original owner not the house. That said, you should be firm in getting the owner to negotiate a buyout with the leasing company and get him to pay half of the cost. He can't force you to take over the lease or stop the escrow (assuming you never agreed to take over the lease to begin with and it's not in the purchase agreement that implied such). Interestingly, my co-worker just bought a house with leased solar panels, he ended up paying 1/3 of the buyout cost which is a pretty good deal. Remember, if you're already in escrow, unless you signed the release form, he cannot sell the house again -- so be firm and play hardball.

[Ian S]

Thanks - I was not sure how much an 11K system would cost to buy. If the inverter is good for 10 years, do you know what the replacement cost is currently? Also, the seller may be willing to subsidize our assumption of the lease - so perhaps a $30K payment from the seller would even things out?

You're probably not going to get a SunPower system for $3/kW more like $4+/kW. I would work on the seller to get some kind of subsidization of the lease. You should get a copy of the signed lease and see if there are clauses related to dealing with paying the lease off early, how much that costs, and if by assuming the lease you'd have the same types of conditions. If this is your dream house and you plan to stay there forever, then assuming the lease may be OK since you were probably getting solar eventually anyway. Problems I see is that it may be oversized which results in less bang for the buck and you may have the same problem selling the home with the lease at some future point.

[HX_Guy]

The reason he doesn't want to ask for a buyout cost is that he doesn't want to subsidize it. If you're already in escrow, you have the upper hand. If the solar panel lease was not written into the purchase agreement, you have no obligation to take over the lease. The lease is attached to the original owner not the house..

Actually, when doing a lease, there is a UC filing attached to the house...which is kind of like a lien from what I understand, not not quite. Either way, I do believe it's attached to the house and the person selling the house has to be able to transfer it to someone else I think.

[thejq]

Actually, when doing a lease, there is a UC filing attached to the house...which is kind of like a lien from what I understand, not not quite. Either way, I do believe it's attached to the house and the person selling the house has to be able to transfer it to someone else I think.

Ok, when I said "not attached to the house", I meant, when you buy the house all the liens must be cleared by the seller. You're right about the leasing company putting a lien on the property. But it's the seller's responsibility to remove the lien before the close of escrow, unless the buyer agrees to continue the lease and signs a new lease with the leasing company.

[ernie24]

Thanks for all of your ideas. We were looking for about 2 months - we do plan to stay forever but you never know and I am not certain I want to be in the seller's position in the future. Its pretty close to being our dream home but yes we could walk away and start looking again. We are not obligated to assume the lease per the purchase terms. The lease does have early buy-out provision but its $72K during year 2 of the lease !!! Ouch !! And yes I am concerned that the system is too big for our needs altho it seems that SDG&E is bent on raising rates again. I like the EV car idea but I don't drive that far. Meeting with my agent tomorrow to discuss scenarios.

[gvl]

Sounds like the seller will now know that a solar lease is more often a bad idea than not.

[HX_Guy]

Thanks for all of your ideas. We were looking for about 2 months - we do plan to stay forever but you never know and I am not certain I want to be in the seller's position in the future. Its pretty close to being our dream home but yes we could walk away and start looking again. We are not obligated to assume the lease per the purchase terms. The lease does have early buy-out provision but its $72K during year 2 of the lease !!! Ouch !! And yes I am concerned that the system is too big for our needs altho it seems that SDG&E is bent on raising rates again. I like the EV car idea but I don't drive that far. Meeting with my agent tomorrow to discuss scenarios.

I was going to comment on the raising rates. Is this house possibly grandfathered in to previous rates? That could be a determining factor vs trying to go solar yourself in a year from now.

Honestly I don't get the big pushback against leasing. Is buying better financially overall? Of course. But is leasing the worst thing ever? I don't think so. I mean if it costs you less than what you would pay in electricity...then whats the argument? Seems some people take the stance of it's better to not go solar at all vs leasing a system.

[gvl]

My only problem with leases is that you're likely to lose $$$$ in the event you need to sell your home. Other than that I think it is a great idea.